From Baka-Tsuki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

March 30, 2014 - Baka-Tsuki General Meeting

The General Meeting will hold place on the 30th of March at thirteen o'clock, Greenwich Mean Time.

The discussion of the following topics will be held on the #baka-tsuki IRC channel, located at the Rizon Chat Network.

Using THIS LINK, you'll be redirected to the Rizon Chat, where you'll have to choose a name before connecting to the channel.

The main topic can be found on the FORUMS.

Meeting Summaries:

  • Quick link to minutes (summary) of Noon Session (w/o TLG): #Noon_Session
  • Quick link to minutes (summary) of Evening Session (w/ TLG): #Evening_Session

Meeting Full Transcripts:

  • Quick link to full transcript of Noon Session (w/o TLG): Noon Session
  • Quick link to full transcript of Evening Session (w/ TLG): Evening Session



  • Temporarily Resolved - Registration Issues:
    • A captcha was put on the Wiki. (KeyCaptcha? Need verification if this is true or not)
    • Double Activation on the Forum (accounts validated by the administrators). Captcha was not put on Forums.
  • Resolved - Security:
    • Double Activation on the Forum, password simplified.
    • X-Frame-Options was set to SAMEORIGIN.
    • Login and Registration are encrypted.
  • Pending Investigation by TLG - Re-Organisation/Distribution of powers:
    • Re-Organisation of groups' leaderships.
    • Strip power from the inactive users (Wiki: Translators, Editors ; Forum: All).
    • Add active and trustworthy users (especially Global Moderators).
    • Allow to unban users for specific groups.
    • Create new Translator and Editor groups for Alternative Languages Contributors.
  • Ongoing - Baka-Tsuki Blog:
    • Simon is appointed as the blog's new administrator.
    • Layout, contributors, password resets and topics to be decided.
  • Ongoing - Modify, simplify and remove outdated rules from the guidelines:
    • THIS PAGE and the Talk page sums a lot of things up. Cloudii will handle the matter.


  • Resolved - Wrong link leading to the wiki's Copyrights page:
The image seems to be missing, but that's not really important.
  • Resolved - Changes in the Protect function for Supervisors:
The Permission Config Section should be redone from scratch, though.
  • Main Page Resolved, Sidebar Ongoing - Main Page and Sidebar:
New layout put for the Main Page, the way projects are shown on the sidebar will change (on progress).


  • Pending Investigation by TLG - Bug while disapproving posts, because of an excessively long justification:
All cases are moved to the right. Remove four of the justification's five sentences.
You have been tested positive as a 100% whole-grain-fed-free-roaming organic Baka or have been diagnosed as a confirmed 100% off-the-charts lunatic.

We are only certified to handle 50% Stupidity and 50% Lunacy, therefore it is with sad regret that you will be placed upon the waiting list to be euthanized.

Fortunately, repeated reports of your condition will bump you up the list, so if you have received this message twice already, Congratulations!
You are now No.1 on the list!

Good bye bye and happy birthday! :)
  • Partially Resolved - Clean up of users:
A purge of all members created before 2014 and without a single post will be done in around 6 weeks. Those after 2014 will be deleted manually.
  • Not Addressed in Detail - - Guest Posts:
Refer to "Registration Issues".
  • Not Addressed - Sending PMs:
Add the Translator no Roukou and the Fringe Security Bureau in the list. Maybe removing the Seitenkan Cult and the Tsukaima Legion?
  • Not Addressed - Sub-forums:
    • We could use rectangular thumbnails to shorten a bit the page, with half the current height.
    • A reorgnization would be welcome. 3 sub-forums moved, merged or removed (Shana, KnS, SAO/AW), one created (Kamachi). It isn't a bad deal.
- Moving Shana in the Abandoned/Stalled section.
- Fusing CSR with KnS, removing Index.
- Moving SAO & AW in the Abandoned/Stalled section.
- Putting Index, Heavy Object, Zashiki and Survey in a sub-forum named "Works of Kazuma Kamachi". Or with another title, it's up to discussion.
- Renaming Daiden and Itsuten's subforum with "Works of Takaya Kagami". Same as above.
- Adding DAL's thumbnail. No changes on other subforums.


  • Topics-specific Minutes can be found on the talk page.
  • A complete log of the meeting can be found here: talk page.

Noon Session

Meeting Attendees (16): DarkoNeko, Simon, Hayashi, Kira082, Misogi, Zzhk, Vallor, Stellaroze, Cloudii, Krytyk, Lery, Rock96 (later Lock), Cthaeh, Victorrama


13:00 - Meeting started. TLG not in attendance. General consensus to wait 15 minutes for TLG to arrive.

13:13 - DarkoNeko proposes that we discuss global rule changes, even if TLG is not in attendance.

13:16 - Simon designated as the meeting Chairperson.

Part 1: Discussion of Global Rules (as suggested in Cloudii's Proposal)

Topic 1: Discussion of the One-Week Translation Deadline to for New Projects

13:17 - Cloudii proposes that the '1-week deadline to complete the first chapter of a new translation (or else face deletion) rule' be removed.

13:17 - Stellaroze suggests that the rule be extended to "1 month" instead.
13:19 - DarkoNeko calls for a vote: "Keep rule as is" (1 vote) - "Abolish rule" (5.5 votes) - "Extend to 1 month" (2.5 votes)
13:19 - Krytyk (the one dissenter) asks to delay the topic and consider the subject together with rules for Teaser Project creation

Topic 2: Discussion of New Full Project Creation Guidelines (and Teaser Project Guidelines)

13:21 - Discussion shifts to talk about New Full Project Creation Guidelines (particularly, Teaser Project Creation Guidelines) (Point #2 of Cloudii's list)

[Comment] - Clarification: the original definition of a teaser project is: "Any project a translator translated a portion thereof, but had no intent to continue the project."
[Summary] - Hayashi suggests that we should enforce this. Only projects that describe the above definition should be tagged as a Teaser Project, and projects that are picked up again should have the teaser tag removed.
[Summary] - Kira082 points out the only way for a new unapproved translation to get visibility is to be classified in the Teaser Project category.
[Summary] - Cloudii and Krytyk point out that most translators on the Wiki choose to tag all new projects as "Teaser Projects", regardless of their intent to continue translating (or not). Hence, from a practical standpoint, Teaser Projects no longer are perceived by the community as per its original intended definition. Furthermore, they observe {{Warning:ATP}} is no longer being tagged on most English Teaser projects.
[Summary] - Zzhk points out that the deletion warning in {{Warning:ATP}} is misleading, and should be changed.
13:25 - Cloudii proposes that all new projects, including teasers, be tagged with {{Warning:ATP}}, assuming the removal of one-week deadline portion of the tag.
13:31 - Krytyk proposes that we merge ATP with teasers and create a separate set of rules to govern the process.
13:33 - Kira082 proposes that the ATP tag should be placed only after a project meets the requirements to become a full project (Basically, just for the mods to approve the project), and the one-week deadline to be deleted.
13:36 - Simon calls for a vote to remove the deadline in ATP, but it get's ignored... DarkoNeko also suggests that we move on to the next topic...
13:40 - After significant support behind Kira's proposal, a vote is made on the follow clarification:
1). Teaser tag is the default tag to be put on new project
2). When the teaser reaches the requirements for full project, translator tags Pending
3). Oni/DarkoNeko/Vaelis (or any other supervisor) approve
13:42 - Vote tally: "In Favor" (13) - "Not in Favor" (0) --- Resolved. Note that this resolution implies the removal of the 1-week deadline rule.
13:44 - Zzhk proposes that substandard pages (ie: pages with no translations) be subject to speedy deletion. However, general consensus is that a warning must be given first.

Topic 3: Discussion of Issues of Contacting Supervisors for Administrative Issues

13:45 - Cloudii begins discussion about issues of the methods of contacting Supervisors as currently mentioned in the rules (Point #3 of Cloudii's list).

[Background] - Currently members are told to contact "a supervisor" for administrative issues (preferably all supervisors). But we all know that they usually only contact one. For example, if a translator looking for project approval posts on TLG's talk page, it's clearly not going to get looked at. That's the issue.
13:47 - DarkoNeko strongly pushes for the notion that all references of "contacting supervisors via email" (as currently stated in the rules), be removed. No objections.
13:49 - Misogi voices support for the idea: "Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made."
13:50 - Lery and Rock96 suggest that the forums could be used in addition for this purpose. However, there is significant objection to this idea for several reasons.
13:52 - Cloudii proposes that the hypothetical Wiki Administration Request Page be regularly cleaned, if need be by a single individual assigned to the duty. However, the technicalities of this are disputed.
13:54 - Simon proposes an amendment, and a vote is taken on his proposal:
1). Create a single location on the Wiki where administrative requests can be made. This should be at location that all sysops/supervisors monitor.
2). Any supervisor that grants the ok to a request will delete the request.
13:54 - Vote tally: "In Favor" (9) - "Not in Favor" (0) --- Resolved.

Topic 4: Potential Additions to Existing Rules (not-essential)

13:56 - Cloudii decides to skip Points #4-5 of Cloudii's list, after giving a brief summary of the contents. No objections.

Topic 5: Migration of Wiki rules from the Forums to the Wiki & Help Pages Recognition

13:56 - Cloudii begins discussion about "Migrating all the Wiki rules from the Forums to the Wiki" (Part 2 of Cloudii's list).

13:57 - A miscommunication occurs, but after it is clarified, there is unanimous support. --- Resolved.

14:00 - Cloudii petitions for official recognition of the effort to create Wiki Help Pages (Part 3 of Cloudii's list).

14:00 - Unanimous support. --- Resolved.

14:01 - Brief coffee break as everyone contemplates what to do without TLG present.......... Kira082 proposes that we vote on issues here, and ask TLG to approve the resolutions that are reached.

14:05 - The meeting attendees confirm that DarkoNeko indeed cannot fix the problem with the Supervisor group rights on the Wiki by himself.

Part 2: Definitions of Inactivity and Translation Project Supervisors/Administrators

Topic 1: General Discourse... Several ideas proposed, but no real resolutions made here

14:06 - The conversation about user group reorganization and the definition of inactivity begins.

14:07 - The committee debates whether inactive individuals on the Wiki should have their powers removed. DarkoNeko feels there should be protocol for this.
14:07 - Multiple members debate whether leaving inactive individuals with power roles on the Wiki is a security risk (hacking, etc).
14:07 - Members also debate what should be the definition of inactivity (1 year no contributions, 6 months?)
14:12 - Cloudii points out there are is no protocol for the removal of inactive Project Supervisors/Administrators who are listed on a translation project. This leads to some confusion as two topics are being disputed at once, as half of chat starts to discuss Project Supervisors/Administrators definition issues.
14:22 - Misogi proposes that Translation Project Supervisors should be renamed to "Project Managers" to clarify the existing confusion about whether Project Supervisors need to be part of Administration (as Wiki Supervisors).
14:23 - Vallor proposes that Translation Project Supervisors and Administrators should be merged into one role.
14:24 - Simon proposes that we require Translation Project Supervisors to be real Wiki Supervisors who have privileges and can protect pages, etc.

Topic 2: Global Definition of Inactivity on the Wiki, and Consequences of Inactvity

14:27 - DarkoNeko and Simon rein everyone back to discuss inactivity definitions and consequences.
14:20 - Chat seems split about whether general inactivity should be defined at 6 months or 1 year (again). Everyone seems to agree that inactive members should lose wiki privileges (at least temporarily).
14:29 - Cloudii proposes a definition and consequence for general inactivity (applies to all usergroups):
1). One year of inactivty = loss of physical wiki rights
2). If you end up coming back, talk to a sysop to be reinstated
14:30 - Vote tally: "In Favor" (9) - "Not in Favor" (0) --- Resolved. Note that many members actually feel indifferent.
14:33 - Chat revisits whether inactivity is defined as "lack of total presence" or "wiki activity". General consensus is to leave it vague.

Topic 3: Defining and Clarifying the Roles of Translation Project Supervisor/Administrator

14:32 - Conversation returns to the subject of Translation Project Supervisors/Administrators (and their activity)
14:34 - On the topic of Translation Project Supervisor inactivity, cloud proposes: 1). If a Project Supervisor/Manager appears to be inactive... 2). A translator may put in a request with Administration, to be instated as the new Project Supervisor.
14:36 - Misogi's terminology change is revisited. After a small debate, this was the final resolution:
1). Project Supervisor -> Project Manager (position can be filled by anyone, but usually a project translator)
2). Project Administrator -> Supervisor (position must be filled by wiki supervisor or above)
14:44 - Vote tally: "In Favor" (8) - "Not in Favor" (0) --- Resolved.

Topic 4: Protocol for the Replacement of Inactive (or Incompetent) Project Managers

14:51 - Committee debates the timespan it should take before a Project Manager should be considered inactive, and the protocol for the appointment of a new one.
14:52 - Chat starts out thinking there should be a 1 year inactivity minimum before a Project Manager can be exchanged, but this is gradually cut down to a consensus opinion that a Project Manager needs to be active and reachable within (1 week, 10 days, or 2 weeks) after they are contacted.
15:01 - Some members feel it's too strict to define a specific number of days. However, everyone seems to agree that if a Project Manager is inactive, the translation team should generally contact a Supervisor while selecting a new Project Manager. There is relatively strong disagreement about how this should be worded.
15:05 - Chat votes on a hybrid proposal between DarkoNeko and Simon:
1) If a Project Manager is missing (minimum a week) and the project staff complains, the Supervisor should reconsider the management and talk to the translation team.
A Substitute manager is designated amongst the active members of the translation project
2) After [2?] weeks of non-activity or response, the substitute officially becomes the new manager
15:06 - Vote tally: "In Favor" (3) - "Not in Favor" (3) --- Deliberations continue.
15:07 - Cthaeh explains his vote for no: "The danger I'm seeing here is that the translator forgets to say s/he will be gone for x-weeks, an editor (or translator with vastly different opinions) comes by and wants to make large changes, and then those large changes are made and the translator comes back after x weeks and is annoyed that something they considered important was completely changed."
15:08 - Cloudii proposes that the Supervisor should have total authority over selection (or replacement) of Project Managers, and the Supervisor should have the freedom to make an unbiased decision on a case-by-case basis after consulting with the translation team.
15:22 - After significant debating on the proper way to word this without investing too much apparent power in the Supervisor:
In case of inactivity or management problems, the project staff may ask the Supervisor to mediate and/or appoint a new Project Manager amongst the active project members
15:22 - Vote tally: "In Favor" (8) - "Not in Favor" (0) --- Resolved.

Topic 5: Protocol for Assignment of a New Project Manager (assuming a vacant position)

15:23 - Cloudii inquires what is the protocol for assigning the first Project Manager.
15:23 - Some members feel that the staff should normally pick amongst themselves, but should inform Administration of the final choice.
15:34 - DarkoNeko proposes that the first Project Manager should be the project/teaser creator --- chat generally disagrees.
15:36 - Krytyk proposes the first Project Manager is the translator/person who applies for the project to be recognized as a Full Project (during ATP process)
15:36 - Committee votes on a summary of Krytyk's proposal:
First project manager is appointed by supervisor during ATP procedure.
15:37 - Vote tally: "In Favor" (6) - "Not sure" (1) --- Resolved.

Closing Remarks and Wind-Down

15:41 - Committee begins to discuss ban/unban privileges on forum

15:44 - Committee members begin getting tired... topic kind of trails off, especially since no one has privileges to manage this issue.

15:50 - Meeting officially adjourned.

Evening Session

Meeting Attendees (14): Thelastguardian, Simon, Misogi, Cloudii, Lery, Vallor, Zzhk, Cthaeh, Kira082, Rock96, Nurin, Stellarroze, Krytyk, DefaultMelody,

19:12 - Thelastguardian logs on.

Topic 1: Wiki CAPTCHA and Forum Spam Management

19:23 - Thelastguardian states he is currently working on installing CAPTCHA.

19:28 - Some form of CAPTCHA is apparently tested. Simon questions why he sees cats.
19:30 - TLG states: "According to mediawiki it's currently the most effective form of makes the server a lot busier though."
19:31 - Committee discusses server specs and whether it's worth it to run the captcha (2x server load).

20:11 - TLG states pHpBB recommends "double account verification" (aka: Admin Verification) instead of CAPTCHA.

20:12 - Committee protests that manual Admin verification is not feasible for Baka-Tsuki.
20:13 - Misogi suggests sending a code along with email verification, but technology experts state that it's too simple.
22:11 - TLG confirms installation of the "double account verification" mod. Details about this installation can be found here. --- RESOLVED
21:45 - Note that this resolution obsoletes Lery's suggestion to prune all forum users who have not posted, because the mod will take care of it in 6 weeks.

20:14 - TLG also mentions that every single pHpBB captcha method has already been cracked, including re-CAPTCHA.

20:16 - Committee again begins to reconsider using hand-made questions, but this time having questions a human can solve. Some suggestions include questions involving math and forum rules.

20:32 - TLG states the hand-made questions are currently disabled, and he has no intention to re-enable them until he finds better questions.

20:36 - TLG ponders using key-CAPTCHA, since he hasn't used it in a while.

20:45 - TLG implements some kind of Wiki CAPTCHA(?), and decides to leave forum CAPTCHA aside for now. (need confirmation) --- RESOLVED

Topic 2: Password Complexity

20:49 - TLG says password complexity is an easy fix, and he'd do it on the spot. --- RESOLVED

Topic 3: Broken Link to Copyrights

20:55 - TLG is unable to locate the link for the copyright link that needs to be changed.

21:00 - TLG fixes the copyright link. He says it was because of the Google Adsense hack. --- RESOLVED

Topic 4: Security

20:50 - Lery proposes that add_header X-Frame-Options be added

21:00 - TLG begins to work on XSS
21:15 - TLG resolves XSS. He put in the SAMEORIGIN header option into nginx config file. --- RESOLVED
21:19 - TLG: The iframe nyancat hijack only works on the main page now.

Topic 5: Main Page

21:15 - Simon presents the Proposed Main Page created by Pumkingboyz

21:16 - TLG approves, but realizes that no one has edit rights at the time being.
21:38 - Simon goes to change Main Page after receiving supervisor privileges back. --- RESOLVED

Topic 6: Wiki Supervisor Privileges

19:36 - Zzhk proposes fixing the Wiki Supervisor usergroup rights with regards to protecting pages. Request is sidelined as TLG prioritizes installing CAPTCHA.

21:02 - Misogi re-voices this topic but is ignored again as TLG is working on XSS.

21:22 - TLG explains the error was caused because mediawiki permission configuration is a mess. Variables probably had not been changed since the last upgrade.

21:38 - TLG successfully adds permissions. --- RESOLVED

Topic 7: SAO and Accel World Project Abandonment Schedule

21:44 - Stellarroze questions why SAO is not abandoned yet and reminds that it's been licensed in France too.

21:45 - Misogi takes responsibility for French side of the matter. Minor dispute about full deletion of SAO page (English). No deletion of the project page.
21:46 - TLG says to give translators and readers a 1 week warning before abandoning the project. Since he observes Yen Press has no intention of abandoning the series, he expresses his opinion that the entire SAO project should be removed.

21:57 - Lery reminds TLG that normally, Teh Ping handles issues involving SAO.

21:59 - TLG: "it will be respectful to alert him [Teh Ping] of our intention". TLG also says to hold back on the 1-week abandonment declaration until Teh Ping is informed.
22:00 - Nurin volunteers to contact Teh Ping. --- RESOLVED

22:03 - Side note: TLG undeletes Hidan no Aria registration page upon Kira082's request.

22:03 - TLG inquires if there is someone who has been handling Accel World. Committee replies no. Topic is not mentioned again. --- NOT RESOLVED

Topic 8: Rules and Help Pages made by Cloudii

21:53 - Simon seeks confirmation if they will be used officially.

21:54 - Kira, Misogi, Lery say yes. TLG does not respond about this topic.

Topic 9: Baka-Tsuki Blog

22:04 - Simon requests that someone be given rights to the Baka-Tsuki blog.

22:15 - TLG states his intention to give someone full Administrative rights (full control: 1. layout of the site 2. format of the site 3. contents of the site 4. coordinating between) to the Baka-Tsuki blog. Isn't sure who, though. Simon volunteers.

22:16 - TLG states he does not particularly like the current wordpress (due to wp exploits/security), and is willing to give the new Administrator choice in which CMS to use.

22:16 - Committee discusses different CMS options, but eventually returns to wordpress for the lack of a particularly good alternative (not resolved). TLG clarifies he mostly just doesn't like the current look and security issues, but he's fine with wordpress.

22:16 - TLG: "Okay, we will leave the blog issue for another day. Lord-Simon, if no one else wants the job, you get it (and if someone does, well, collaborate)." --- RESOLVED

Topic 10: Forum Usergroups

20:37 - Kira082 states that the forum needs new moderators, since most current moderators aren't particularly active.

22:55 - TLG begins discussion about forum usergroups, though he initially feels reservations about whether he's the right person for it.

22:56 - Cloudii states the issue is an imbalance of powers between active/inactive individuals. TLG says he'll check the user privileges, but wants to do research. --- NOT RESOLVED

Closing Remarks

22:55 - Side note: TLG states he changed the redirect setting associated with cookies; he wasn't sure if it would break anything though

23:24 - TLG inquires about the average downtime for Baka-Tsuki. Committee response: 1 to a few times a month. TLG warns to expect more downtime this year, since our server host is about as reliable as the last one.

23:26 - Simon inquires how often TLG makes backups, and TLG responds weekly, due to data limitations. Stats: Database (23GB), Web (16GB). TLG has a 4-5 TB data cap, and we currently use 3 TB/month.
23:34 - Simon offers some of his server space to help cover the strain load, but TLG says no thank you.

23:36 - Misogi brings up the excessively long forum post denial message. TLG says he needs to look into it. --- NOT RESOLVED

23:57 - Meeting officially adjourned.