Talk:Toaru Majutsu no Index
Illustration overview reminder found in the project forum...
- 1 How I enlist ?
- 2 Chapter 2: Doubt_Lovers.
- 3 What the shit.
- 4 What tense to use?
- 5 About translating.
- 6 I need illustrations for Volume 10
- 7 Pic translation
- 8 Just a slight concern.
- 9 Spanish section request
- 10 I'll try to translate a bit
- 11 Thanks for your work!!
- 12 Translations?
- 13 Some Question
- 14 VOLUME 11
- 15 To Aru Majutsu No Index Volume 3
- 16 Consensus: Past or Present?
- 17 Volume 14
- 18 Churches
- 19 Main Page Format
- 20 Awards
- 21 Short Synopsis
- 22 Header
- 23 chapter title Vol2 Ch3
- 24 "To Aru" Majutsu no Index
- 25 Underscores
- 26 Inserting hidden page numbers into the text?
- 27 Thought processes
- 28 british vs american english
How I enlist ?
I done reading to aru majutsu no index chapter 9. So i want to post it in here. Is it possible? How can I post it anyway? Japanese to Indonesia. japanese to englist. - (Kili)
Well, you could really just post it unless you want specific clearance from the moderators at the project forum. For the Indonesian one, you should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Indonesian" at the Alternative Language Forum for help with setting that up.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. -Repose
actuality I already completed translate english. Not so hard to make it to indonesia. but if I done where and how post it ? - (Kili)
The Indonesian version? For that you have to create the Alternate Language Project similar to other Alternate Language Projects with the complete translation of the Project Page (as a naming example: [[To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia]] (To Aru Majutsu no Index ~ Bahasa Indonesia)), Registration Page, a thread in the Alternate Language Subforum in the Baka-Tsuki Forum and at least one translated Chapter to get the approval to continue the project. --Darklor 23:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
it so hard for to made but I will keep trying. I need time to study about it.
am i wrong ?
I've just joined up, and have registered on the TAMNI register page, is that good enough? I can't seem to get into the forum link. --Flere821 09:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Should be just fine, as I assume you'll be translating to English like the other things you've done. I suppose you don't need the forum unless you want to set up a project page up or want to discuss translation terms, but still, not sure why the links don't work for you. --EnigmaticRepose
Chapter 2: Doubt_Lovers.
The link refer to "http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index:Volume5_Chapter1" So I think of them is wrong? --Hypernova 12:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks EnigmaticRepose for fixing it!--Hypernova 00:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
What the shit.
Why would a translation project start at volume 12 instead of volume 1? Imagine watching the Lord of the Rings movie series for the first time in your life...except instead of watching it starting from the first movie, you skip to the middle of the 3rd movie during the seige of Gondor. And as you sit through the movie you keep going "Oh this sword guy is kinda cool whats his name? And who is this Sauron guy?".
you, whoever you are, are being horrendously rude and ungrateful for the fact that the translators (you seem pointed at Joay in particular) not only translate these novels, they do it for free. Besides that, volumes 1 through 6 are covered by the anime, and  has synopses of all the novels. --Saganatsu 04:15, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Also since the translators have the power, they can decide what they like to translate, so if you could translate as well you could start with volume 1 if you like it... or with chapter x in volume y ;) So if you dont cant and dont like it you dont have to read it. I am gratful for that what we have, so should you too if you like to read more of those otherwise unobtainable unreadable volumes. --Darklor 08:34, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
hmm, now that volume 7 and 9 are translated and volume 10 is being translated, i'd like to ask if there is a specific reason that volume 8 was skipped.? It doesn't really matter though, since i was just wondering if maybe the story in 8 takes place in a different time than 7->9. other than that, i'm fine with waiting, since you're all (yeah, you translators ^_^ ) doing a fantastic job at translating this so far. keep up the good work. oh yeah, and... Ganbare!---AzraRillian - Transcend The Sin - "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body." C.S. Lewis 03:18, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Took me five months to even notice this, sorry...
The reason why I did Volumes 9 and 10 before volume 8 was basically because of a request (the first guy who PMed me when I worked on this project asked me whether I can do Volume 9 first. So, sorry...?
And to the guy who has been complaining about Volume 1 not being translated first, well, no point talking about it now when out of a sudden, there are three guys working on volume 1 now (I'm really, really glad to have other people share the workload). Like what Saganatsu said, the anime has pretty much covered most of the important aspects, and since there's a sizeable fandom of it that can provide all sorts of information, you're not really in the dark regarding what has happened. The 'Lord of the Rings' idea doesn't really work since you would have most likely gone about trying to find out what's going on in order to answer the question of 'what's going on?' Or did you not even bother looking for it?
Well, instead of complaining, you might as well do something about it if you can. Orders are nothing if the actions are not done, you know. We're not entitled to do this for you, we're not even paid to do this. We're doing this only because we want to. We translators here are like Kamijo Touma, we don't have a reason to do things, we just do it.
--Teh Ping 17:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
What tense to use?
So, after reading some chapters of the seventh volume I would like to ask a question. What tense would you use in descriptions? Right now I’m doing some edits on the translated texts but there is always this one thing I’m tripping over. In this volume, and most likely also in the others, we have a third person narrator. In this case you would normally write the descriptions or narrations in the past tense, right? That’s what I would do at least and is commonly done in the most English novels. But as it is, there are some differences in the Asian and the English writing and that includes the used tenses. Because of these differences the translator decided to use the present tense in the above-named cases (most of the time at least). Of course, this isn’t a mistake, but I often feel like it would be one. Perhaps I’m just too used reading the past tense in descriptions but to me, with some exceptions, it often feels awkward when I read some of them in present tense. I would like to get some more opinions on this matter. Is it just me who has this problem or do you think the same as me? AJS90 21 March 2010
I've really just been using present tense for everything, which I based off of how the translators worded it. It's a bit weird for the narrator to do so, but eh, I'm used to it already. ...On a side note, it's nice not being the only editor anymore. ~EnigmaticRepose
Yeah, I've been using present tense for my edits, too- but only because there might be a convention in light novels regarding it that I'm unaware of. Better safe than sorry, you know? I MIGHT try a past-tense sweep edit for second opinions, but only after I'm done with my ongoing ones.--Tactician J 03:13, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
well to be honest, i dont know all that much japanese so i cant really translate, i however have atlas, so the question is can i use atlas as a raw draft and then start editing from there?
another dumb question i have is if there's a reason why the novels are listed only up to volume 13? because i can find them easily on hongfire or emule if anyone needs them.
No, atlas will just lead to shit translations and cause more trouble then what's it worth - response
Unfortunately, translation software will normally make it harder for anyone to translate. You can use it from time to time to check some harder words, but the best is if you have knowledge of Japanese, Chinese, or Korean (Correct me on this one if I'm wrong.) and translate it manually, since it's hard for anyone to start working on it if they don't know what the text is about in the first place. ~Teh Ping
You could try it, but I would wonder and call you very lucky if the outcome isnt gibberish --Darklor 09:23, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
I need illustrations for Volume 10
Exactly what's written on it. Would the uploader kindly upload the illustrations of the other volumes? Many thanks in advance.~Teh Ping
would it be enough a link of megaupload volumes 1-16 and with the illustration? anyway heres the link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2AS0PZD7 -ark
Ah, could someone translate the pics too, if there is on them something to translate, please? --Darklor 05:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Most the pictures just have quotes from the novel, with additional tiny descriptions, like 'Academy City Tokiwadai Student' or 'English Purist "Church of Necessary Evil (Necessarius)' and the like, so you aren't missing much. It's really just a fit it in the context after you read it, as they're supposed to be teasers for the story anyway (which is why they're placed in the beginning).
Hm, I thought it would be nice - like we have it for Sword Art Online especially since we dont have translations for all volumes, so some teasers would be nice ;). Have meant only pics like those: Image 1; Image 2; Image 3 --Darklor 10:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Just a slight concern.
As Joay and I are busy with our own stuff, I suppose that there should be some sort of a Project Supervisor around to keep check of certain stuff. There will be updates in the future, as Twi will continue to translate this series (hopefully), but I hope that there's someone to keep this series in check, since it's no longer a 'small' project anymore (I guess, since YMMV). ~Teh Ping
Spanish section request
I would like to start a spanish section for the novels.--18.104.22.168 22:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
You should make a topic with something along the lines of "To Aru Majutsu no Index - Spanish" at the Alternative Language Forum for help with setting that up. Registering may also be a good idea. An Indonesian one was also set up, so you could use that as a reference. --EnigmaticRepose
I'll try to translate a bit
Currently my japanese is iffy at best, but as i'm studying it might as well give it a shot.I'll try to pick up the 1st chapter of volume one (no one's doing it right?). I'm asking here first as well, i don't know if i can manage it yet. If i manage to somehow not embarrass myself too much doing that i'll register, and work on the rest of the volume. Again, i can't be sure i'll manage it so... best try it out first then see.--AADragon 16:35, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
No one would say something against it, just feel free to ge ahead, but best would be to register the chapter before, even if it is not very probable that some other translator would translate it anytime soon, but wonder happens sometime, so just to be safe ;) --Darklor 20:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your work!!
Glad to see translated this novel series by Teh_Ping and Joay, thank you very much for working so hard and fast. At this point, I can say that the translators will surpass Index II(by JCStaff) in covering the novels :)
I'm new here, and I want to translate some stuff. I was reading the chinese version and randomly decided to translate V1C4 from Chinese to English.
Do I need some sort of clearance? Or can I just go ahead and upload my stuff (especially since my translation quality is most definitely sub-par)?
Go ahead and just upload it
The editors will be helping out with the language. I'll also help you proofread it if you want.
Over here, there's no need for any bureaucratic red tape. Any translator can just upload their stuff here, so you can just upload it.
EDIT: Still having a bit of trouble with the formatting, garr...
--Teh Ping 03:51, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Er.... So, I already translated about three chapter and half from the 2nd Volume... and the question is... How do I upload it? Any clues?
Here's what you need
1. First, go to the volume that you want to upload.
2. Do you see the edit button on the top right hand corner? Click it.
3. Look at the 'Internal link' section, that is how you're going to add hyperlinks. (You can look at the other volumes for reference)
4. If you did it right, the words should be in red, click on it.
5. Now, you should be in a new page. Click on the 'create' button at the top.
6. Upload the text that you have already translated. (Make sure to press 'enter' once after every paragraph so that it's easier to read.)
7. Next, the headings. At the wiki editing tips page, look at the 'headings' section (well, duh).
8. If you see the format used on all B-T texts, you'll probably get an idea of how to do it. (Just copy what they do.)
9. For pictures, it's under 'thumbnail image', the 'picture' would be from the illustrations of the volume that's available here. If I want a picture from say 'Volume 1 page 031', the format would be [[Image:Index_v01_031.jpg|thumb]]
10. For a footer, just go to any completed chapter here, copy the scripts for the footer, and make the necessary edits.
If you need any more help, you can pm me.
--Teh Ping 15:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I wonder what happened with this translator and translation... --Darklor 09:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
english Volume 11 has been sabed over by the spanish version. Any chance of recovery?
Erm, excuse me, but you lost me there
Is there anything wrong? Since when do we have a Spanish section?
--Teh Ping 17:41, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Not sure, but I think they're talking about all the chapter titles being in gratuitous Italian.
Oh that, that's what you guys meant. Yes, it's supposed to be in gratuitous Italian, since the plot setting is in Italy (Before you guys start blaming me for spoiling it, the prologue of Volume 11 will be uploaded in 4 hours.)--Teh Ping 09:21, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
To Aru Majutsu No Index Volume 3
Can You work on volume 3. Sorry for asking, because I love this arc. --anonymous
the sisters arc is great, but, we have it already in two separate manga and the anime. new content would be my preference. --Saganatsu 15:00, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Ah, we'll see how it goes. Most likely, I'll leave it as training for some new translator. I'm planning to be more of a drill sergeant for these new translators, so, get ready.--Teh Ping 15:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
Ah, I know about the anime and manga but I love to read more. But anyway Thank^^. I will wait for anyone to translate it.
Consensus: Past or Present?
Please Vote poll
With six active translators and three editors, this project needs to come to an agreement regarding tense usage. Do we stick to present tense, or do we shift to past tense?--Tactician J 10:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
For me, it's more of past for what just happened and present for what happens during the sequence. I also use a 'present future tense'. Next vote?--Teh Ping 11:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm all for present as usual, but as I've said before, I can work with either. I get more attached to present tense stories, anyway. If we do end up agreeing on present tense, we might want to put it somewhere on the main page, and even in commentary tags by the editor list for extra insurance, as odds are potential editors/translators don't check the talk page until someone actually uses it. —EnigmaticRepose
I've only just realised/remembered there's a talk page here ^.^; I'm voting for past tense as that's what I'm used to, and that from what I can gather from the official Chinese translated Index Novels I have on hand right now they use past tense as well. It'll be easier for me to work in past tense. --Flere821 09:16, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I know this must be annoying being asked this but could someone work on doing Volume 14?
I don't think anyone is doing this at the moment, volumes 1,SS1,15, & 22 seem to be under active or semi-active translation, but volume 14 is probably coming soon. admitedly, it's just a guess, but as it will be the first volume not in the first season untranslated after SS1 is done, it will probably get done soon. If you can translate, however, feel free to start, no one has registered for it. --Saganatsu 06:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
To the translators and editors: both the anglican church and russian orthodox church exists :, exist. they are not made up by the author. (technically the anglican church's proper name is the 'Church of England', and is the leader of the 'Anglican Communion'). I'm quite certain also that the Roman Catholic Church exists also, being a lapsed member. The Amakusa Church is made up though: it was named after an island of japan where the heads of executed christians were buried in 1637 . --Saganatsu 14:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, I don't really know how to explain this, but here's a post by an AS user called Thirdlc, which I find to be very good in explaining it.
"The author uses coined words like 十字教, イギリス清教, ローマ正教 and ロシア成教, instead of actual words like キリスト教 (Christianity), 英国国教会 (Church of England), ローマ・カトリック (Roman Catholic Church), ロシア正教 (Russian Orthodox Church).
I don't like it that those are directly referred, ignoring the author's intention.
Looking at these names, it's possible that the author just wants to make them end with "seikyou" and there is not much meaning in 清.
イギリス清教 (Igirisu [B]seikyou[/B]), ローマ正教 (Roma [B]seikyou[/B]), ロシア成教 (Roshia [B]seikyou[/B]), 天草式十字凄教 (Amakusa-shiki juuji [B]seikyou[/B]) "
--Teh Ping 11:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
- No hand facepalm...*
Well, to any editor, I'm going to need your help here.
For all the 'Amakusa Catholics' change them into the 'Amakusa-style Church'.
Anyone got any other way to translate the rest, or should we stick to the terms given in volume 7?--Teh Ping 14:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Ah--Saganatsu 14:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
I think this needs to be translated consistently between the volumes. A guideline discussion seems necessary. Just because Vol. 7 was translated first doesn't mean that it's done appropriately (I haven't even looked, so couldn't venture an opinion). Likewise, I would hesitate to buy into a 'canon' translation by a Japanese author - church names tend to be archaic English, for one thing, which is not well covered by Japanese style English education.
My take, now that I see some of the source: 教 seems to be used in the way that we use teaching, rite,(compare 'rites' of Freemasonry) or even (religious) tradition in English. So maybe translate イギリス清教 as 'English Puritan rite,' 'English Puritan church,' or 'English Puritan teaching.' By extension, that would lead to 'Roman Orthodox rite'/'Roman Orthodox church' and 'Russian Institutional rite/church' (I'm having a tough time translating the on reading of 成 into something that isn't 'orthodox' in this context.) Likewise, 凄教 translates pretty well as 'cult' for me. Did a little googling and found this page  which seems to agree with my 'cult' definition. So the 'Amakusa cult.'
By analogy, It seems obvious that the author is suggesting real churches, but is very careful not to use their common names in Japanese, I would guess both to avoid angry adherents of the real churches and to help with the alternate universe separation of realities. For example, ロシア成教 is practically synonymous with the meaning of 'Russian Orthodox Church' but just happens to not be the way it is written in Japanese. It seems that we would want a similar obfuscation in the translation for the same reasons. -Senile seinen 16:58, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I just want to give my two cents to agree with the character 教 itself translating to cult. It's used quite commonly in Chinese text to such effect. However, I believe the only problem in doing so would be that cults in the English language are usually seen as heretical and some organizations might not fit that light. -Snorca 17:30, 17 November 2010
Well, I should be resting, but since this is important, I'll give an answer.
The so-called canon translations aren't invented by me or Joay or any other translator. When I said Volume 7, I meant the chapter titles of volume 7. The names on the main page, they're canon, we didn't do anything except removing the japanese text. Of course, if we're to go by our own common knowledge, cult would be the better term, but it'll feel a lot less familiar.
Why are these religions named as 'cults'? As someone who has Chinese as my first language, I haven't came across something like the character '教' being equivalent to that... (Or I just can't remember it - can anyone give some examples?) But yeah, in canon these Churches are for all intents and purposes 'religions' and not 'cults' as the English speakers understand it. Maybe we can make some sort of 'need-to-know' translation notes for readers on the Index Novels' main page if this issue becomes a serious one? Just putting it out there the Churches in this universe is not the ones equivalent to Real-Life's ones. In the Official Chinese Translated Volume 1 of TAMNI (pg30, next to a illustration page of Index) I have on hand there's a Note saying all churches mentioned in this series are made-up ones by the author. Also, I can vouch for the English spellings being correct (I have a hard copy of the Official Chinese translated Index Novel Vol7) given in Vol7 of the Churches are as the person above me has said - so I think what we have right now should stay. --Flere821 05:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Have you read the Jing Yong novels? Condor heroes etc? The Ming Cult gets referenced quite often -Snorca 07:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Its Japanese then maybe the meaning of '教' is different between Japanese and Chinese? (Rikaichan says for that "teach", "faith", "doctrine") And if the Churches are realy made up by the author shouldnt then イギリス清教, ローマ正教, ロシア成教 and 天草式十字凄教 be British Puritan, Roman Orthodox, Russian 成(?) and Amakusa(n) 凄 (? unorthodox) faith or doctrine instead of Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox Church? --Darklor 09:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
No no, Kanji used by Japanese have basically the same meaning in Chinese. In Chinese, that character does indeed mean teach, doctrine, etc. It depends on how it is used. It is really difficult to draw meaning from one character, it depends on how it is used along with other characters before one can drawn meaning from it. -Snorca 17:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
I haven't came across those examples you (Snorca) mentioned, but from what I looked up in a Chinese -> English dictionary (Granted, this particular reference book is from 1994 so it's more than a decade old...) the character '教' doesn't have the meaning of cult... and as far as I know from other sources the Chinese term for 'cult' is '邪教', the characters can literally be translated into 'evil religion'. The character '教' alone doesn't mean 'cult' but just 'religion' I think.
But precise meaning/s of the words aside, IMO for all intents and purposes these 'religious organisations', for a lack of better term right now, are similar in structure to real-life churches, even if they're not named the same. These organisations are churches in canon (in terms of influence, history and other such aspects), not cults, and should probably be called as 'churches'. And to prevent mixing up with Real-Life versions maybe some other name can be introduced, but with the word 'church' included? Or like I suggested earlier we can just note the differences between the ToaruVerse Churches and the Real-Life Churches on the TAMNI main page?
That reminds me, the novels calls 'Christianity' (for a lack of better term to describe the religion that is born from the death of the Son of God is called , the name 'Jesus' is never mentioned in the novels and is always refered to as the 'Son of God') the 'Religion of the Cross', ie '十字教', instead of the usual Chinese version '基督教'. Maybe we should change that in our translations as well somehow? --Flere821 21:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, as I've said, the word cult will have problems because it has a negative connotation in it based on how the mass media portrays it. Not all cults are evil though, religions would refuse to be classified as a cult, but in essence of the word, they technically are cults. Cults are basically a group with religious beliefs, but are somewhat considered strange. It had been given a negative image due to how most religions (not gonna name the most obvious one) really, really hate how people stray from their practices.
Anyway, the word church doesn't necessarily mean Christianity. It simply means a sanctuary. For example, the infamous cult church I used to live close by: The Church of Scientology. There are many other cults out there with churches but lack popularity.
Of course, how we use these words are up to the editors and translators. I really have no opinion on what we use, just trying to provide some insight as to how those words are technically acceptable. -Snorca 23:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Because I was the first one to use the word 'cult' I had better clarify what I meant: I used the word 'cult' only in reference to the kanji combination 凄教. While all of the church/religion names end with kanji that can be pronounced as "seikyou", the actual kanji used are DIFFERENT between the different religions. Only the Amakusa seikyou has the kanji 凄教 for "seikyou." 凄 translates as 'uncanny, weird, threatening, horrible,' and 教 is the 'teaching, faith, doctrine' kanji we see at the end of all these word. 'Weird/horrible faith' is pretty close to 'cult.'
By this reasoning, only the Amakusa group would be called a 'cult.' As I wrote above, the others would be something like "Russian Institutional Church," "English Puritan Rite/Church" and "Roman Orthodox Church." --Senile seinen 14:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
凄 also means wonderful, great, terrific, tremendous, real. --El Phoenix 12:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, I'll make this clear. Here are the original chapter titles of volume 7:
- Prologue: 行動開始 The_Page_is_Opened.
- Chapter 1: 学園都市 Science_Worship.
- Chapter 2: ローマ正教 The_Roman_Catholic_Church.
- Chapter 3: イギリス清教 Anglican_Church.
- Chapter 4: 天草式十字凄教 AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church.
- Epilogue: 行動終了 The_Page_is_Shut. --Teh Ping 13:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Main Page Format
Please Vote poll
Okay, let's clear some things up. Do we want to keep the author's bizarre English, underscores and all? I think we should, since he uses symbols in the majority of the titles, and they were originally removed due to someone mistaking it for bad formatting.
And how do we want to format the chapter titles? I was thinking keeping the two titles, separated by two spaces, the first title ending in a period and the second being italicized. I've made my own test version and have viewed it via Show Preview, but because *20 edits later by others*, I never really got the chance to apply it. I can still apply it and all we would have to do is undo the revision if anyone agrees with my thoughts.
So, ideas, opinions? —EnigmaticRepose
Before I like to start on this. I'll like to emphasize that I won't tolerate any format changes, none, unless we all agree to it. To both The Shadow , I understand what you're trying to do, but how would you like it if someone is to take help you do something, yet without your permission, and not the way you wanted it? It's the same thing. And to Suzuku, I have to be blunt here, that was really rude. You should have talked it out before taking action. I'll beseech to everyone, not just the two parties involved, that if you want to carry out any format changes like tenses and the like, please discuss it with us first before you do anything.
Now, onto the main point. I feel that either we leave if as it was, or we do the original titles that has the Japanese versions. The translations of the titles may not be universally accepted, unlike the original, so it would be difficult at times to reconcile with the translations, like here:
* Novel Illustrations * Prologue: Begin Action — The_Page_is_Opened. * Chapter 1: Academy City — Science_Worship. * Chapter 2: Roman Orthodox Church — The_Roman_Catholic_Church. * Chapter 3: British Puritan Church — Anglican_Church. * Chapter 4: Amakusa-style Church of Distinct Doctrines — AMAKUSA_Style_Remix_of_Church. * Epilogue: End Action — The_Page_is_Shut. * Afterword
I'm in favour of the status quo, or even better, if we can leave the original Japanese titles.--Teh Ping 03:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I think you guys need to request someone with supervisor rights to become your supervisor and serve as an arbitrator? --Larethian 03:52, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
From my understanding the original novels, for each chapter, have a japanese title and a english title (the one with the underscores). If this is the case, my preference would be for both to be present, as above. Admittedly, it looks pretty odd for volume 7, but it looks like there the difficulty would be differentiating between religion as organization vs. religion as belief system. Also, sorry for contributing to edit war. --Saganatsu 04:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
While I'm fine with the either of the older formats (just "Science_Worship./Science Worship.", no translated titles), will the Japanese titles work out since this a translation project? Yeah, 5–10 passersby will understand them, but the majority won't. And the titles look nice on the contents pages because they're neatly separated into columns, whereas since the title translations can get fairly long-winded, it makes it somewhat difficult to make it look consistent and not have a huge amount of unnecessary space between a title. Though we could also romanize them instead, like:
*Prologue: Kōdō Kaishi. The_Page_is_Opened.
That would make some romanization difficult, though (especially if your knowledge of the language is half-assed like mine), and would slightly be better than just right-out Japanese characters. And Teh Ping, were you in favor for the original English lines with the underscores or the spaces?
And just for a side-note, the Russian project of Index has both titles, though the translator keeps the English titles as-is, most likely because he's a Japanese to Russian translator (must make Kamachi's heavy use of English-oriented furigana a pain).
Also, Larethian, we've gotten quite far without the supposedly necessary supervisor or admin, so why start now? It's actually sort of surprising that Index hasn't had one volunteer yet. —EnigmaticRepose
Well, it's good that you guys can arbitrate among yourself. On closer look now, I see that the edit war is caused by casual editors rather than editors of the project. Speaking of the supervisors, I don't even see them around much? I know Vaelis, who has admin rights, is actively lurking.:) --Larethian 06:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I also think that you should keep the two titles: the first title translated into English and the weird English title of the Author. The current version looks ok but you could italicize the second title. — Vaelis 08:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, there's too few translators for us to sort ourselves out -_-, so we didn't need a supervisor up till now. However, if there's a need to have one, seeing how it goes now with all the debates here, I'll volunteer for it.
As for the author's English, I say we keep the underscores. Honestly, I prefer the Japanese titles for the first title instead of the translated ones. Maybe we should get Tact to chip in his thoughts on this, since he's the proofreader here. Will do a poll when I get home, or if we really can't decide, I'll get Herald of Meridian to post a poll on the wikia.--Teh Ping 09:53, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
When I said Japanese, I meant the original hiragana, katakana, kanji and the likes, not romaji.--Teh Ping 10:38, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
I think Teh Ping's suggestion of retaining the original script for the chapter 7 titles makes the most sense-it's exactly what we have chosen to do in translating the chapter titles of the manga (Hoshi no Furu Machi) I'm editing. Yes, keep the underscores and all. I don't really see a problem with using JIS romaji in place of the katakana/hiragana/kanji, but I don't see an advantage to it either.
My concern is the translation of these terms in the body text - it needs to be consistent within and between volumes, and I believe it should closely mirror the meaning of the hiragana/katakana/kanji in the body text, rather than the author's somewhat engrishy attempt at translation himself in the chapter titles. This is with the goal of emulating the Japanese reader's experience as closely as possible. -- Senile seinen 15:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
We have created a poll regarding that in the wiki!
@Teh_Ping I dont think you should translate 教 as church if also 会 (as 教会) would be needed to become the word for church...
Also I would prefer an English translation (since I cant read Kanji (only with Rikachan) nor understand the Romaji transcription, but would also like to know the name of the title) with the original hidden in <!-- --> and with the "subtitle" in italic separated with a normal dash (-) and not a "& mdash ;"(—), but without the underlines but rather with spaces (but that is only because I think it looks strange with those underlines). --Darklor 17:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
My view is that keep the Japanese version of the chapter titles and give the English translation of that on the chapter page itself, even if only for the reason it looks better on the contents page that way (among others). As for the underscores and other things in the author's English, I suggest we keep it the same as how it is shown - if necessary change it on the chapter page, but leave it as it is on the main page. --Flere821 21:36, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
What would you think if it was formated like that:
- Novel Illustrations
- Prologue: Radio Noise
- Chapter 1: Imagine Breaker
- Radio Noise
(Prologue example 1; Chap 1 example 2; Chap 2 example 3 - but I think "chapter" should be kept) --Darklor 18:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Beyond the inconsistent link locations, I'm not in favor of having each chapter split up over two lines, it seems that it could be confusing, especially to people new to the site, and it doesn't look as nice to me. --Saganatsu 04:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
As said that are three different examples. The Prologue is example 1, chapter 1 is example 2 and chapter 2 is example 3 - its just another suggestion instead of the long chapter titles in one line... Of those examples I would prefer example 2, which would mostly be like its done with some MariMite chapters. --Darklor 06:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, building off of Darklor's example, here's what the idea I suggested in the forums would look like:
- Novel Illustrations
- Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy/幻想殺しの少年のお話
- Chapter 1: The Magician Lands in the Town/魔術師は塔に降り立つ
- Chapter 2: The Conjurer Bestows Demise/奇術師は終焉を与える
- Chapter 3: The Grimoire Peacefully Smiles/魔道書は静かに微笑む
- Chapter 4: The Retiring Magician Chooses the End/退魔師は終わりを選ぶ
- Epilogue: The Conclusion of the Index of Prohibited Books Girl/禁書目録の少女の結末
So what does everyone think? It's certainly unique, but considering the chapter title scheme of the Index novel is unique, it fits. ---- Suzuku 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Looks great: but would it possibly be better to have whitespace on both sides of the '/' mark? Like:
- Prologue: The Tale of the Illusion Killer Boy / 幻想殺しの少年のお話
Just a minor suggestion. --Saganatsu 01:12, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
It's not a noticeable change, but I don't mind. -- Suzuku 06:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
First off I'd like to apologize to Teh Ping and everyone else. Like you said it probably would have been better to start off this discussion before sparking the whole little edit war that went on. In regards to the discussion itself I think your suggestion looks rather nice Suzuku, especially with Sagantsu's minor tweak. Maybe it would also be good to add a little note somewhere on the main page explaining how Kamachi formats the chapter titles so people can see where each part comes from. The Shadow 04:58, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Holy canoli at these great walls of text! In any case, I quite like Suzuku's suggestion (with Saganatsu's addendum). --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
2011 is correct? Because at the moment its only 2010... --Darklor 18:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes, it's correct, as the listing is for the entire year of 2011, which is why the polling is done at the end of 2010. ---- Suzuku 16:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
While we're on it, I tweaked the format for the award section a bit. Any objections/complaints? ---- Suzuku 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
I replaced it with an edited version of the wiki's. Yes, I realize the old one was also just a more cut up version of the wiki's, but the English wasn't as well worded and it looked a bit sparse. Objections? ---- Suzuku 18:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
So I added one. Thoughts? ---- Suzuku 18:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Don't see any problems, and no objections to one personally. --Saganatsu 01:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, I would say bold would be better for the first "To Aru Majutsu no Index". --Darklor 04:10, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
I tried that, but it came off looking weird, so I stuck with italics. -- Suzuku 06:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
chapter title Vol2 Ch3
I don't think that the chapter title for Volume 2 Chapter 3 is correct: it's an exact copy of Volume 1 Chapter 3, in both the english and translated japanese. could someone check this? --Saganatsu 04:30, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
No, it's correct. The chapter title uses the exact same Kanji and English title as the title of Volume 1 Chapter 3. -- Suzuku 06:00, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
"To Aru" Majutsu no Index
Wikipedia recently agreed to have the wiki page on this series be titled "Toaru Majutsu no Index". Should we follow their decision? --Tactician J 23:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
would be alot of work: main page, registration page, one formatting page, upto 10 pages per volume (4 chapters, one epilogue, one war report, one declaration of..., an afterword, a full text page, and a illustrations page)= upper limit of 243 pages needing moving, updating the links on all of them, updating the links on the sidebar... . If someone is willing to do all that, I'm all for it. --Saganatsu 00:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
I don't particularly mind either way, though I do think Toaru is the correct version myself. I don't know how formatting links work for the server admin, so it might be easier to just do it next the B-T server randomly goes down. Again. —EnigmaticRepose
Was there a decision or two I missed somewhere? why did Kraft take out all the underscores on the chapter titles? was under impression that they were to be left in. also, why added the periods at the end? --Saganatsu 21:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
From the looks of it, Kraft has been re-editing the titles applying punctuation rules and probably assumed the underscores were a formatting issue without knowing that the current format was agreed upon by the editors and supervisors of the project (I don't think they realized that was how it was meant to be). It would be nice if the entire series could be locked only to have edits approved by a supervisor or editor to prevent drive-by editing on a project of such a large scale. --Lighthalzen 22:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Dunno, but the ending period on the translated line helps distinguish the two titles. And I see he did it on the chapter pages themselves, but the decision was for the main page itself. The problem with the supervisor–editor thing is, we don't have a specific supervisor for the Index project, nor do any of them seem to frequent enough for all the updates we make to the main page (the percentage updates). We also don't have an editor with actual editor rights anyway (though I wish Tact would frequent more to get it). Besides, the translators would need the similar abilities just to create a page. —EnigmaticRepose
Is it possible for the translators to mark where the pages start and end? That would enable me to look up the original lines more easily, and I'd like to try making some nice-looking PDFs down the road... --Tactician J 14:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
I could go through eventually and help with that if I stop being lazy and when the tense issue is resolved. Anyway, I did a small preview of how it would look on parts 9–10 of volume 16's chapter 1. Basically, lines can be cut off randomly in the middle of the sentence (or words for that matter), so don't feel too reliant on the original formatting. Not to mention that every other page has the two titles for the chapter. And out of curiosity, how would you do the illustrations? Some colored ones have three-page-spreads and seeing an illustration after the part it happens in the text just isn't the same as seeing it as you turn the page, so would you use a two-page style, two-pages for just illustrations with the text page, or just one page at a time? —EnigmaticRepose 14:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Just wondering if I am the only one that's slightly uncomfortable with how thoughts are differentiated from the rest of the text in different ways. It seems that the most common methods of indicating thoughts are either in (parenthesis), italics, or (italics and parenthesis). Perhaps we can come to some kind of a standard for this... or is there a difference as to how certain thought processes are? (I don't have access to the Japanese text or cultural knowledge to know...) -Snorca 23:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
In the original texts, most thoughts are in parentheses but some also aren't, just like how most spoken dialogue is in quotes but some isn't. English novels also do it (the quoteless dialogues, though thoughts don't have to be emphasized with italics or parentheses), but I think it's more of a slight difference to not feel so abusive with them during dialogue/thought scenes. The italics is just something we started doing (I don't remember why?) and aren't in the original format. I don't think Japanese use italics at all, but they do have a way to emphasize certain parts of a line without just bolding it, though I forget what it's called. If you have any lines in mind that you'd like to me to look up and post as examples, go ahead, though it'll be in Japanese. —EnigmaticRepose
Occassionally some do use bold, but most of the time, most novels use 『』 or 【】 parentheses for emphasis. Italics look intuitive for monologue (and yes the Japanese don't use them). I've used it right from the start in LOLH, because I saw it in Toradora. Some CSR pages I saw use parentheses, but Italics just feel right to me. I've not read enough Index to know how the author presents thoughts. But based on your description, my guess is those in parentheses are First-Person monologue, while those that aren't are narrator-reported thoughts. --Larethian 04:11, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Wow, never thought they might be monologues. I normally associate monologues with just quotation marks since they're said aloud. Now I'm even more confused as to what to do/how to read, haha. --Snorca 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
british vs american english
which english should we use: part of the project is in american english and part in british. It's not really that important to me which, but we should probably settle on one or the other. --Saganatsu 20:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
british will be better because they don`t use america--Cognitio