User talk:Zero2001

Punctuation

Somewhat interested in Punctuation Changes

How does the bytes work for those anyway? From what you did on IS, the apostrophes for Microsoft Word uses more space than wordpad. Can you explain that to me? Thanks--Teh Ping 15:19, 29 May 2011 (UCT)

The types of punctuation used formally were: …‘’“” . I used the characters ... and ' and " to replace them. The thing is, that every type of
character has an id set to it in the form of a combination of bits (01010101). This is done because bits, bytes, kilobytes, megabytes,
etc, is how data is stored. In other words " does not equal “ or ” in the storing language. However in English they would mean the same thing.
" occurs earlier in the storage character table than “ or ” therefore it has a smaller id. Thus space can be saved by using it. My advice is
to either stop using MSWord and use WordPad or TextPad editor. OR... first write in MSWord then take it to TextPad and then use the find and
replace functions to switch the above characters. You can also use FoxReplace addon if you are using Firefox but that's just a little more
complex in initializing the settings but the result is that the replacement process becomes fully automated (It's a major pain if you make a
mistake though, if you don't exclude pages you need to, then the replacement could affect something you did not wish it to). The final way is
to use this site's own search and replace function. Zero2001 15:41, 29 May 2011 (UCT)

Personally, I use the FoxReplace method. So there might be rare cases where something unintended was changed. I apologize for that. Zero2001 - Talk - 00:37, 4 June 2011 (UCT)

BTW, … and ... actually do not have any differences in the bytes used. I tried replacing them in an Oreimo chapter, but 0 bytes changed.
Kira 14:08, 6 July 2011 (UCT)

Hmm. I suspected as much. Basically that means that the … character is equivalent to three fullstop(.) characters.
Zero2001 - Talk - 16:49, 6 July 2011 (UCT)

FoxReplace Method

If you are using FireFox (download here). All you have to do is install the FoxReplace addon. After that create an xml file using Notepad (name it anything you like, for the sake of reference I'll call it "PuncReplace.xml") and write the following code into the file (copy as it is):

<substitutionlist version="0.12">
  <group>
    <urls>
      <url>-http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=User*</url>
      <url>http://www.baka-tsuki.org/*&action=edit*</url>
      <url>http://www.baka-tsuki.org/*&action=submit*</url>
    </urls>
    <substitutions>
      <substitution casesensitive="true">
        <input type="text">"…"</input>
        <output>"..."</output>
      </substitution>
      <substitution casesensitive="true">
        <input type="text">"‘"</input>
        <output>"'"</output>
      </substitution>
      <substitution casesensitive="true">
        <input type="text">"’"</input>
        <output>"'"</output>
      </substitution>
      <substitution casesensitive="true">
        <input type="text">"“"</input>
        <output>"""</output>
      </substitution>
      <substitution casesensitive="true">
        <input type="text">"”"</input>
        <output>"""</output>
      </substitution>
      <substitution casesensitive="true">
        <input type="text">"<!—"</input>
        <output>"<!--"</output>
      </substitution>
    </substitutions>
  </group>
</substitutionlist>

Save the file. You can also download the file here. In fact I recommend downloading over copying.

After that, (in Firefox) go to FoxReplace options and click the "Import" button, choose the xml file you made ("PuncReplace.xml").

The settings will automatically load into FoxReplace.

Click the "Okay" button and after that whenever you edit or see the preview of the edits the FoxReplace addon will automatically make the appropriate substitutions. Good Hunting! Zero2001 - Talk - 17:10, 6 July 2011 (UCT)

Upgrade

I am not so sure why I should do take a look? --Darklor 02:52, 30 June 2011 (UCT)

I'll post that collapsing upgrade idea in the forums, to discuss it. I'll give you the link to that shortly. After all, it is not a bad idea. Kira 02:50, 1 July 2011 (UCT)

Here's the link. XD

http://www.baka-tsuki.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4458 - Kira 02:59, 1 July 2011 (UCT)

Just by curiosity, what pages did you create except the collapsing upgrade? Kira (Talk) 02:09, 7 July 2011 (UCT)

The collapsing upgrade was a request/idea. I made the Help:Color, Mimizuku and the King of Night: Volume and Template:IS Nav pages. But basically the first was copied from another source and the second was easy to make since all it is is the full volume page. The template was hard to make though. I have prepared similar templates for "Hidan no Aria" as well as "Chrome Shelled Regios" but they shouldn't be implemented without first implementing collapsibility, otherwise it will look too cluttered on the pages. Zero2001 - Talk - 04:49, 7 July 2011 (UCT)

BTW, why use the collapsibility for the projects? I mean, I k ow for the mature contents, but I do not understand for the normal projects. Kira (Talk) 00:01, 8 July 2011 (UCT)

When ever did I say to use collapsibility for normal projects/pages. I only said that it was optimal to use them for making collapsible templates (navigation or otherwise) as well as for hiding mature contents. Where did that idea come from? Zero2001 - Talk - 00:56, 8 July 2011 (UCT)

Answer: Ah, if it is like that, than I am the wrong person to ask, since I dont have any say in that. --Darklor 16:03, 8 July 2011 (UCT)

Talking about the nav bar at the end of the chapters. Why would this be used since we already have the 'previous chapter', 'next chapter' and 'main page' buttons? Kira (Talk) 16:39, 8 July 2011 (UCT)

Let's say that there are two events or dialogues that are interrelated but separated by one or more chapters or even books. Which would be preferable? Going through multiple pages to check and compare the info or simply using one link. That is why full nav templates are more preferable. I mean even for projects that have two or more points of development(ie: two or more chapters being translated at the same time) can be easily navigated between rather than having to go back to the main page and then the other one. It was taught to me in Uni. Websites that can allow the surfer to navigate from one point to another in the least amount of steps (ie: page loads) are considered more user friendly and popular than those who take more steps. I mean which would you prefer? Zero2001 - Talk - 18:59, 8 July 2011 (UCT)

IS translation edit

Awkward sentence in vol 6 chapter 4

Sorry about that, I knew that was awkward translation but I just can't find better wording =.=". The last sentence talk about how the knife holster was positioned so the knife's grip face horizontally to the front instead of vertically upward in order for the user to be able to easily snatch the knife whenever he/she wants to. Basically, it was positioned like this gun holster position instead of this one--Kuroi shinigami 03:44, 10 July 2011 (UCT)

So basically It was an arm holster with horisontal positioning rather than a hip holster with vertical positioning? Zero2001 - Talk - 03:47, 10 July 2011 (UCT)

Take a look on the chapter page. I changed it to mirror what you suggested. Is that okay? Zero2001 - Talk - 04:03, 10 July 2011 (UCT)

Yea, that's great. Thanks for the edit. There's a change in sentence structure compared to the original Japanese sentence, but that can't be helped in a translation IMO due to the structural difference between Japanese and English. I also change the sentence structure sometimes in order to keep the meaning and not sounds awkward. --Kuroi shinigami 04:19, 10 July 2011 (UCT)

Yeah well that is unavoidable sometimes. I mean the sentence structures of japanese and english are basically opposites. So moving the words is inevitable. I think it's fine so long as the meaning is as close as possible. Zero2001 - Talk - 06:03, 10 July 2011 (UCT)

About reference

Isn't a reference for each character name a little too much? I could understand if it's for in-game technologies, but IMHO, giving reference for a character to a wiki is a little to excessive. What do you think? --Kuroi shinigami 14:39, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

That was what I thought too. Kira (Talk) 14:49, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

I don't do it each each and every time. Just normally once a volume per character. And I don't actually think it's excessive. Actually I think it will help both the IS wiki as well as us. By allowing people to jump to the pages there they can start editing there as well. Think of it as an investment. By linking to them we are sharing in their popularity. And allow them to share in our readers. It's actually beneficial to both us and them. A symbiotic relationship, even if they don't link to us. Just the fact that we link to them will be enough. Trust me. Zero2001 - Talk - 14:55, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

As for the amount of links. Rather than going through one link and having to search there for the correct pages and then navigating to the said pages. It is better to link directly to the required page, no? Thus we change a two or more step process into a one step process. Thus the more links the better. It's the same basic principle as wikipedia. If it's just about looks. Then trust me you'll get the hang of it. And I think there was a way to streamline the links a bit more so that they look like in-wiki links. I'll try to find that method. Zero2001 - Talk - 14:55, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

I've already put the links there. Plus with all the other edits. It took me hours per page. Please let it stay. Zero2001 - Talk - 14:57, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Well, the link for things other than the character name is a good idea IMO, but I just feel that linking character profile is a little excessive, especially in 6th volume. Wouldn't it feel strange if there's a link to a complete character profile when the person is just getting introduced into the story and you're supposed to know them throughout the story? Not to mention the potential getting-spoiled problem for people who's just curious and accidentally click on the link and read the complete profile while he/she hasn't read the later volume. But if you think that's good, I won't change it. I'm not that cruel to make your hard and great work into nothing just for something trivial like this. It's just something to think about. Thanks for your edit as always. --Kuroi shinigami 15:19, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Actually I had thought about that. Would a warning atop the page suffice? I mean there are some who like to be spoiled and some who don't. Plus the IS wiki's character page mainly have spoiler data from the Anime. There are subtle differences between the Anime and the LN, aren't there? Zero2001 - Talk - 15:23, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Yes, there's subtle difference, but still, the wiki will be updated in the future sooner and later(even faster if your target of enriching the wiki is reached) and spoiler will become abundant about the later volume's plot. And bout warning atop the page, some reader don't read the notice if they're in a hurry to know what happened next in the story, I know at least I never pay attention to warning in the top XD, but at least it will be better than nothing I guess. Well, I'll leave the matter about this link to you, other translator, and the other editors out there(and of course what the reader think) so I will lay my hand off to this matter. You don't mind if I open a topic about this in the forum just to hear what the reader thought about this right? Oh, and ask Teh_Ping and Kira too if he minds about this or not because we do have to keep the format between volumes consistent right? My vote goes to "doesn't mind"--Kuroi shinigami 15:33, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

I don't mind. If there is anything else you wish to discuss with me feel free to do so. Actually I'm trying to enrich both baka-tsuki and the IS wiki. At least I hope it will stop the guys translating the LN over at the IS wiki and/or lure them here. And I don't think Teh Ping or Kira would mind seeing as I just finished doing it (adding the reference links) for all the chapter pages to date (Volume 6 was the last). Thus making the format between the volumes consistent. Boy was that a brain burner. It took days to go through everything and change a lot of stuff. Grammar, Punctuation, Englishifying exclamations, Adding References and TL Notes, etc. Zero2001 - Talk - 15:42, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Ah and by the way I prefer using the ref tag over writing the TL Notes on a separate page. It allows for backlinks to the refering text. And did you know you can group the references so that they look just like the current seperate page when put in the fulltext version. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Footnotes for more details. I'd like some thoughts on it. Zero2001 - Talk - 16:13, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

About the refs, I want to make the hyperlink in the bottom, OK? I did it with mostly of IS V4C1, but too lazy to do it all. Kira (Talk) 17:07, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Well you can use the ref tags to do so but like I said before that will make a one step process into a two step process. How about this: Give me a little time. I'm sure there was a way to have external links mimic internal links so the the small window sign doesn't show. I'll try to find that. If we have that in hand we can try that instead. Zero2001 - Talk - 20:51, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Well I found the link used to connect to The Infinite Stratos Wiki. Just copy it and replace the last part with the character's name: wikia:c:Infinite-Stratos:Infinite_Stratos_Wiki. The system is called Interwiki Linking. Zero2001 - Talk - 21:06, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Ohhh, this is so frustrating. The interwiki link for wikipedia is not working. Oh well At least the IS Wiki Interwiki link works. Here you go:

[[wikia:c:Infinite-Stratos:*Insert page name here*|*Insert link text here*]]

And that's basically how to do it. Zero2001 - Talk - 21:23, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Orimura Ichika
Orimura Chifuyu
Shinonono Houki
Cecilia Alcott
Huang Lingyin
Charlotte Dunois
Laura Bodewig
Ran Gotanda
Dan Gotanda
etc, etc, etc.

Kira all you have to do is undo the changes and then use the wiki search and replace method to replace the links as shown. If you want to do it that is. Zero2001 - Talk - 21:33, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

I think too that this isnt necessary. If you're reading a book you normaly dont get any separate informations about the characters. Or are have the books themself a introduction to the characters? --Darklor 22:06, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Da-ka-ra. Like I said. Why write everything from scratch when there is such a convenient source for cross-referencing around already? All I need is the go ahead. Switching the links will be a snap with me using FoxReplace. Plus with books you have to flip through a multitude of pages for what you're searching for. Her it's a single link. The work load is extremely reduced. Besides even if you do put all the explanation you will still have to link them, there really isn't much difference except using an already existing source for the links. Of course... It goes without saying that I won't do anything without some approval. Zero2001 - Talk - 23:05, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

You didnt get it right? There are no where in this wiki character overviews also no links to those! (In my opinion. But if the other admins will allow that, I wouldnt have said anything, but once where those removed from a project.) Terminology list (/overviews) are different, since their purpose is to show which term to use for the translation of some rare special words, also to show how to transcribe (some) names. --Darklor 02:44, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

---

Undo the changes? Impossible for now. Since I've made other edits after this, I'll have to do it manually. Well, for now, I'm a bit short on time, and editing from my iPhone one a wiki is pretty difficult. So I'll do it later.

Well, we'll give your method a try. However, I want to submit a poll in the forums for the readers.Kira (Talk) 23:12, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

If you can't undo the changes then that's fine too. I can manually change it, given time. But if you are going to submit a poll then consider if the readers will be able to understand the terminology and the system used. Personally I think they wouldn't be able to wrap their heads around it and go for the negative option just because it's beyond their understanding even if it is easy to use. New systems are like that in a way. Easy to use but complex to understand, in the beginning anyway. Though once they do understand it the popularity just skyrockets. Zero2001 - Talk - 23:16, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

I will need a clear go ahead though. I need to be sure I'm not about to do something that might put me at direct odds with either Kira or Kuroi or any other translator. Zero2001 - Talk - 23:21, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

---

Personally, I do not mind, as long as I don't have to put them by myself. Too lazy lol. However, I'm not sure readers would appreciate that much blue text. Kira (Talk) 23:23, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

---

So can I do it? Yes, no? Umm I think by setting the text color black we can avoid the blue text. But even without I think it will be fine. There aren't that many links. Honestly wikipedia and the wikia sites have a LOT more. Zero2001 - Talk - 23:26, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

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I don't really care, as I said. But first, I'm not the supervisor. Teh_Ping-sama is. So, I cannot say "yes" or "no". Kira (Talk) 23:29, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Hmm. Well seeing he hasn't had a problem so far I think I will get to it. If it does become a problem he can always revert my edits. Though it would be sad seeing as I worked so hard. Sigh. I hope it's fine. I will get around to it soon. Please be patient while I configure the optimal settings for FoxReplace so that something unnecessary doesn't get changed. Zero2001 - Talk - 23:31, 13 July 2011 (UCT)

Well I've done the ones I could. As for the wikipedia links leave them for now. As soon as the functionality of the interwiki links covers that here, I will switch them. Sorry for the inconvenience. Zero2001 - Talk - 00:40, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

I've tried all the possible combinations for wikipedia including the shortcuts, trying to direct it through the wikia and through metawiki. Nothing works. I think something is missing in the current version of the MetaWiki used by baka-tsuki, most probably updating to version 1.17 will do the trick. We'll have to wait untill then. Or I might have to make a redirection template. Oooo, not looking forward to that option. Too messy. Zero2001 - Talk - 01:02, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

Sorry, haven't been getting involved in this.

Anyway, there can be referral links for two things. 1. IS terminologies. 2. Obscure references (Saves time for us translators so that we don't have to do translator notes). However, please remove the character links, since there are spoilers related to them.--Teh Ping 02:54, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

Well, it seems our supervisor also doesn't agree about character links due to spoiler, so I guess we'll have to remove the character links eventually. If what Zero wants is to refresh everyone's memory about character name, why not make a separate pages just linking the character appearing in it? Maybe with a little insert of small non-spoilerish introduction in the page too along with the link to the IS wikia, just like a character introduction page in manga. The LN has it too, but it's too short and usually only on the very main character, so it should be fine to make it on separate page. That way, not only that people who doesn't want to read back the volumes can be reminded on who the cast is, the people who don't want to be spoiled can just skip the page completely.--Kuroi shinigami 11:54, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

Aww maaann. Oh well. Feel free to do so. At least the IS terminologies will remain. Proverb: A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. How about on the IS project main page like the one on Utsuro_no_Hako_to_Zero_no_Maria#Character_Introduction. Linking to the IS wiki Character pages from there with a spoiler warning at the beginning of the section? How does that sound? And I think we should move this discussion to the IS Main Page's Talk Page. It's gone beyond a simple conversation hasn't it? Or maybe not. It might cause more disruption. Zero2001 - Talk - 14:16, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

Other examples include:

Dantalian_no_Shoka#Character_Introduction
Gekkou#Character_Introduction
etc...

Zero2001 - Talk - 14:24, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

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Last time I did with Hidan no Aria, Vaelis said to me: "This isn't Wikipedia." Kira (Talk) 15:56, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

But it uses the same system. It's a shame not to use it to it's full potential. Plus it is because it is not wikipedia that we can have links to there in order to use it's existing system, no? LOL. This reminds me. Recently my sister got an expensive macintosh computer with Mac OS X. And all she ever uses it for is writing articles and watching some DVD/HD quality videos. Isn't that wasteful? And there are already three examples on baka-tsuki of Character Introduction so why not? Zero2001 - Talk - 17:27, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

How about I make an example on my Sandbox for seeing and then we can decide? It will take some time though. A break from this topic if you will. Zero2001 - Talk - 17:38, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

IS V2ch1

Hey man-- you definitely caught some good errors with your edit, but " 's " is not the enemy. :p It's perfectly fine to leave the " 's " as is instead of editing it to "is". I otherwise wouldn't really say much, but with the character's laid back personality the abbreviation flows more naturally.

Also, I'm not sure adding all the '?' was really really necessary either. While it could potentially be interpreted as a question, seems to me like the main character was more just making a statement. Adding the '?' changes the 'tone of reading,' for lack of a better term.

What do you think? Starkiller4299 18:26, 14 July 2011 (UCT)

I do know 's is not the enemy but some situations required the change. As for the '?' can you tell me the location of the problem. If you could do that I can explain the reasoning behind the edit. And I'm sure you'd understand. Zero2001 - Talk - 18:35, 14 July 2011 (UCT)