User talk:Cthaeh

Status

Last updated --Cthaeh (talk) 19:01, 16 September 2013 (CDT)

• download all chapters: - finished
• minor edits: - finished
• moderate edits: - finished
• major edits: - finished
• AE/BE edits: - finished
• Extra and Miscellaneous edits: - finished
• upload all chapters: - finished

This page isn't necessary anymore, but I'll leave it up for a little while longer in case anyone notices the changes and wants to look at why they were made. I'll also probably post the changes made to this list during editing at some point for completeness sake.

I decided to skip over a few items without editing them (ie original <-> Original). I also changed my mind on one or two choices (ie magic god <-> Magic God), and edited some new things as I found them (ie Imaginary District -> Imaginary Number District).

Intro

I am planning to do an edit for consistency across all volumes of Index simultaneously. I will be downloading all chapters into a single file, editing relying on find/replace, and then uploading all chapters. This list serves as a to-do list for me, and a chance for others to look over the changes before I make them. Also, you're welcome to suggest adding things which are not on my currently on my lists that you have noticed and think should be changed when I edit.

I am hoping to start in the next 1-2 weeks, assuming the important open issues are resolved in time. It will probably take me either 1-2 weekends to finish (so up to 10 days) after I start. --Cthaeh (talk) 18:29, 29 August 2013 (CDT)

Most entries of the list are of a format similar to...

• form1 <-> form2 <-> form3

Which means that form1 and form3 will be converted to (bolded) form2. If I don't have anything bolded for a given entry, then it's probably the case that I couldn't decide or wasn't sure if I should consolidate the terms. Sometimes there will be volume and chapter numbers in parentheses that indicate places where that form occurs. Those shouldn't be taken as perfectly accurate; in many cases it only lists a few of the places it occurs. In most cases, I chose that form because it's the most common, or to match js06's usage (so that it's more likely to be consistent with future translations).

Also, I don't understand JP, but OH&S has asked to include/add, if possible, the original Japanese of any of my queries (including any alternative pronunciation).

Major edits and items requiring translator help

These are things that I think are important and need help from a translator (at least someone who can check the original) to fix. There are also items that I don't need help to fix, but I wanted to make sure that others don't have objections to my proposed changes.

This list has been reorganized to bring the things still in need of help or discussion to the top after the first round of comments.

Major edits

Full caps terms vs just capitalized initial letter for organization names (ITEM/Item, ect) -For organization names, js06 does not use the full caps version of thing, as in ITEM (vs Item) or GREMLIN (vs Gremlin). While I would normally try to convert to js06’s style to be consistent with future translations, the editing around those terms has been thorough, and I think there are only one or two things that have slipped by; so I wouldn’t normally try to change it unless someone else thinks it’s a good idea to convert them. It also seems somewhat inconsistent that Freshmen is formatted as such, unlike all the others (but again, that’s already consistent). -Ultranova17: As someone who did a whole bunch of edits to capitalize those in later volumes, I actually support going back to what js06 does with the first letter capitalized. I learned recently that the all caps is an English fanbase only thing. All Japanese images I've seen where they are written out are written like Js06 does it. Here are a couple of examples. -Cthaeh: I tend to prefer the first letter capitalized version (it seems like an acronym with all caps). However since this is such a large and possibly controversial change, I'm going to bump it up and ask js06 and Teh_ping for their opinions/approval. -js06: I think it should be written with just the leading capital (e.g. Item) especially since it's written that way in the Vol. 15 images. All caps implies an acronym which these are not. The below 15 or so items could use more help (the top few) or discussion, but I have enough information to act on most of them as is if necessary. Third Season program <-> Third Season project <-> Third Production Plan (equivalent searches for any instances of 1st and 2nd as well) -Any advice on which, if any, of those should be removed and consolidated? -OH&S: The keyword is 計画 which means [plan; project; schedule; scheme; program; programme]. I would decide between Plan and Project. I would go for Project as it sounds more appropriate. -Cthaeh: OK, that would resolve the question between the first two, but is the Third Production Plan supposed to be different ("Production" vs "Season")? description of Aleister (sinner <-> criminal <-> convict) (feminine <-> female <-> woman) (male <-> man) -Hopefully this can be answered satisfactorily without having to look up each, but I assume should all these be formatted the same/similar? There are the three sets of differing word choice summarized above. There is one out of the typical order of man/woman-->adult/child-->saint/sinner. There is one swap of the typical Adult-->Child order. I'm assuming that those three things should all be the same, even if the structure of the sentences differs? (v2ch1) The silver-haired “human” appeared like a man but somehow feminine, like an adult but somehow childlike, like a saint but somehow criminal. ... He sounded like a man but somehow feminine, like an adult but somehow childlike, like a saint but somehow criminal. ... The human spoke, the being that appeared like a man but somehow feminine, like an adult but somehow childlike, like a saint but somehow criminal formed an expression which could have been considered a smile and continued. (v6pro) This person looked like a man, yet also a woman; like an adult, yet also a child; like a saint, yet also a criminal. (v6epil) This person, Aleister, who looked like a man, and like a woman; an adult, and a child; a Saint, and a convict, had all the possibilities of humanity. (v9ch1) It was hard to tell whether that voice belongs to a man or a woman, a child or an adult, a Saint or a criminal. (v10epil) This person, it was unknown if he was a man or a woman, an adult or a child, a Saint or a convict. (v10epil) In the darkness, the ‘human’ laughed. / Was that from the greatest scientist in the world? / Or was that from the strongest magician in the world? / Was he a man, or a woman? / An adult, or a child? / A Saint, or a convict? (v16epil)An Adult, and yet a Child; a Man, and yet a Woman; a Saint, and yet a Sinner (v19epil) For just an instant, a slight distortion entered that human voice that sounded like the voice of both a man and a woman, both of an adult and a child, and both of a saint and a criminal. (v22epil)He had an odd atmosphere that made him seem both male and female, both adult and child, and both saint and sinner. -Cthaeh: I like sinner for matching against saint (alliteration and thematic) -Ultranova17: I agree that sinner sounds better. -Teh Ping: 'Sinner' sounds better, but may be too light of a term to be used in this case. We are talking about the Most Wicked Man in the World after all. -Cthaeh: So, 2 editor votes + 1 translator/supervisor anti-vote = ??? -Skies: The quoted sentence you have there from Volume 2 Chapter 1 were personal liberties that I took to make it more sensible in English. While it's possible to be a (noun), you can only be described by (adjectives). This the reasoning for being a man described as feminine, an adult described as childlike, and a saint described as criminal. Ultimately, the sentence is just a stylistic way of saying the statements said below. Whether or not you choose to adopt this or revert it to a simpler standard is up to you. These are evolving translations after all. commander (referring to Last Order) (nt1ch1) <-> command tower <-> control tower -This could easily be intentional word choice diversity, so I won’t change unless told they should be the same? -js06: They should be the same. -Cthaeh: I could decide between them myself, but is there any preference for one term or the other (I'd normally go by whatever js06 uses, but there are multiple instances of both command and control tower in js06 translated chapters) Thomas Platinabank (v13) / Thomas Platinaburg (v15, wikia) / Thomas Platinumburg (v19ch1) (name from wikiトマス＝プラチナバーグ) - OH&S: Either Platinaburg or Platinumburg (Platina is the common japanese word for Platinum in katakana. One is a literal translation, the other takes into account the japanese language. I would go for Platinumburg.) -Skies: Platinumburg is likely for the best. Five_OVER (nt4p7) <-> FIVE_Over (nt1ch5) <-> Five Over (nt7ch3) -I wasn’t sure if Five Over vs the other two forms reflected a difference in the original or not. If they should all be the same, I would default to js06’s usage of Five Over -Ultranova17: I believe FIVE_Over was used because of this image. I don't really have an opinion either way of what to use, though it definitely shouldn't be Five_OVER. XXth school district / District XX / XXth District / the XXth district / XXth student district -While this isn’t too big of an issue, I feel like there is a little too much diversity. If someone wants to suggest terms to consolidate to, then I’ll do that. Otherwise I’ll probably leave it alone. -Ultranova: I've always edited it to District XX, since that's the term js06 uses. -Skies: In all of my edits, I change them to District 11 or something similar. To be extremely pedantic, 11th District would always require that you add "of Academy City" or "of the city" to be grammatically correct. Amakusa Catholics / Amakusa Church / Amakusa Christian Church (NecCh1) / Amakusas / Amakusa / Amakusa-style Church / Amakusa-style Remix of Church / Amakusa Style Remix of Church / Amakusa Style Remix-of-Church -I could use some guidance here as to which terms to keep. The last three are likely trivial to decide on, but I think some of the first few forms should be consolidated. -Teh Ping: I hate this one, and simply copied the title. Well, they aren't really Catholics, so I think Amakusa Church is more appropriate in this case. -Cthaeh: (I don't like it either) Anyone want to save me from indecisiveness by bolding which terms to keep? English Anglicans / Anglicans / Church of England (v14-p, 13ch10) / British Puritans (?) / Puritans (v21ch8) <--> Anglican Church (for the organization) / Anglicans (for members) -Cthaeh: I'll bump this up and put it next to the Amakusa entry, just because they're similar. Though I believe these variations were debated in the past and the discussion settled on Anglican Church. An editor changed Accelerator's speech patterns just in NT2 as far as I can tell (__ing was changed to __in', "kind of" to "kinda", "want to" to "wanna", and similar). I'm planning on changing back to the original/standard speech pattern. - I didn't know why it was changed, so I just wanted to double check that there isn't a known reason why Accelerator should be speaking differently than usual (even if Kamijou was drunk at the start of NT2, I didn't think Accelerator was drunk)? -Ultranova17: From what I understand, Accelerator speaks in a rough way in Japanese, so I'm guessing an editor tried to convey that in English. I don't think that's a bad idea, but I'd recommend changing it back for the sake of consistency. spiritual item <-> spiritual tool -This looks to be a translator preference, so I'm planning to go with js06's typical usage black spell <-> Black Spell <-> 'black technique' red spell <-> 'red spell' <-> 'Red Spell' <-> Red Spell <-> 'Red technique' -OH&S: Tsuchimikado's spells: Red Spell and Black Spell should be changed to Red Ceremony and Black Ceremony instead. Considering the kanji for the spell, ceremony is more appropriate. -Cthaeh: Ceremony is not used at all in the translations so far. So unless js06 comments in favor of that choice, I'll stick with Spell for this edit. magic side / science side <-> 'magic side' / 'science side' <-> Magic side / Science side <-> Magic Side / Science Side -OH&S: Magic Side and Science Side should have capitals IMO. -Cthaeh: I'd like to match js06's usage of magic side and science side, but I don't have strong opinions as to which is better than the other. magic god <-> Magic God // magic god Othinus <-> Magic God Othinus -OH&S: Magic God should have capitals as it is a title. -Cthaeh: again, I'd prefer to match js06's typical usage (which is what's currently bolded) Removing single quotes around special terms (ie ‘Stab Sword’ -> Stab Sword, ‘Apostle's Cross’ -> Apostle's Cross, and others) -Teh Ping’s style was to use single quotes around special terms. Js06 does not, and there are quite a few entries on this list that relate to making those two styles consistent for terms that are spread across the volumes. In addition, there are a few terms that only appear in Teh Ping translated chapters and are therefore already consistent. However, I am still planning to remove the single quotes in order for the general style to be more consistent across volumes. - OH&S (paraphrasing): PLEASE DON'T REMOVE THEM. The apostrophes are clues that the word may not be translated correctly. I hope to systematically remove them as I edit each part. -Ultranova17: I greatly dislike the single quotes around terms. It may just be me, but it makes the volume much more annoying to read when every term is in a quote or some kind of special character. There is always the history link above if an editor needs to see what terms were in single quotes. -Skies: Once all translations are rechecked and confirmed, all grammatically erroneous singular quotes should be removed. If you want to do this immediately, I recommend just copy pasting all of the single-quoted terminologies and pasting them onto the discussion page. Alternatively, putting traditional quotation marks is reasonable as well (e.g.: The weapon was called the "Stab Sword."). -Cthaeh: I think my plan is going to be to leave the quotes for the "major" terms (ie 'Apostle's Cross') that I haven't already put on this list in other sections (ie 'Saint'). So things that are already listed in other sections will be changed as indicated. And then there are also some things that I haven't listed here that I may change when I go skimming through the list of everything with single quotes (it's too long of a list for me to want to go through it an extra time just to pick out things to put on this page, but an example I noticed was 'Deep Blood'), if I know that term is already correct. The below items are satisfactorily resolved canteen and cafeteria (v16ch1) --> ??what is the AE translation for this phrase?? -this is an issue with the proposed BE -> AE conversion of narrative. "Canteen" is a BE term that I'm planning to convert to "cafeteria", but in this one chapter they both appear and I'm not sure what to do. So what would be the American English translation of this line? The only thing I could think of (without knowing the original) might be "cafeteria and school store". -Teh Ping: AE -Cthaeh: updated entry to make it clearer that my question is: What is the AE translation for the lines that currently read "had run out to the canteen and cafeteria" or "canteen & cafeteria search party" in v16ch1? Other information from the same section is "all the bread in the cafeteria was sold out" and "there were no empty seats in the canteen." -js06: The Japanese term rendered as "canteen" refers to a store in the school in addition to the cafeteria where one can buy bread and other simple foods for lunch. You could maybe change it to "school store". Also, the line "all the bread in the cafeteria was sold out" should be talking about the "school store"/"canteen" and the line "there were no empty seats in the canteen" should be talking about the "cafeteria". Kremlin Report: virus, killer virus <-> bacterial wall (v20wr), bacteriological weapon, the bacteria -There are references to the Kremlin Report being a virus and a bacteria. From the description of it eating through protective filters, I would say it should be a bacteria. However, I can believe that Kamachi was mixing the terms in the original. So is the use of both virus and bacteria an issue with the original (should be left as is in the translation), or was it a result of the translation (should be changed to all bacteria (or all virus))? -js06: Kamachi uses both 細菌 (bacteria) and ウィルス (virus). Angel Staff (v7, v14) <-> lotus staff (v7) <--> Lotus Wand (v17,18) (also it's summoning chant is translated / formatted differently in each of the three places) - I had thought the difference was a furigana issue (since the word choice is split by translator), but the article in the toaru wiki has Lotus Wand for both readings (at least as far as I can tell with google translate). So I didn’t want to change it without confirming that it wasn’t written differently in the original. - OH&S: Angel Staff >>Lotus Wand -Teh Ping: Lotus Wand. And to note, whatever titles that appear in this story, I prefer to leave them with a first letter capital, like Knights. Great Elemental Fairy costume (v17ch1) / Great Spirit Revealing Maid (v17ch2, v18ch6) -I believe these are supposed to be the same, but I’m not sure. Based on surrounding context, I think the choice should have the word “maid” in it -Teh Ping: Take the latter for both. idolatry theory (v18 ch5) <-> Idolatry Theory (SPch1) <-> Idol Theory -Just wanted to check whether or not “idolatry theory” was intentionally different from idol theory? -Teh Ping: Nope, text has it as 偶像の理論. 偶像 would be a noun. I still do think Idol Theory is more appropriate. -js06: Actually, the v18 example and I think a few others use 偶像崇拝の理論 which is "idol worship theory" or "idolatry theory". -Cthaeh: OK, I will leave Idolatry Theory and Idol Theory as separate Maiden of Versailles (v21ch8) / Maiden <-> Holy Woman of Versailles / Holy Woman (js06, v18) <-> Femme Fatale (js06, v20+) -Between Maiden and Holy Woman, I was intending to go with js06’s usage. However, I was intending to leave Femme Fatale as is, because I assumed that was an intentional switch in the translation's terminology to reflect a change in the original. But I just wanted to double check that? -Ultranova17: You are right. Femme Fatale and Holy Woman/Maiden are written differently in Japanese. -Teh Ping: Completely different. Leave them as they are. -Cthaeh: Alright, Maiden gets changed to Holy Woman. Femme Fatale stays as is. Fuse Kazakiri (v19ch4) <-> FUSE=Kazakiri (v19ch3) <-> Fuse=KAZAKIRI (v13) - Fuse=KAZAKIRI is the version in that was in the table of contents, and some translators use that form (or the inverted caps form). Js06 seems to use the Fuse Kazakiri form. I also don’t know if perhaps the different forms of the translated name might come from different forms in the original? If they’re all supposed to the same, then I guess I would favor js06’s choice - OH&S: Fuse=KAZAKIRI>>Fuse Kazakiri, IMO. (The '=' is just there to link the first and last names of a person who isn't Japanese. e.g. Stiyl Magnus is actually written Stiyl=Magnus in the original text. Leave the '=' for the Chapter name obviously. Fuse KAZAKIRI could also be correct but I don't think it's needed.) -Ultranova17: I'd agree with Fuse Kazakiri. ‘redirection’, ‘Redirection’ (nt1ch5), reflection, Reflection, ‘auto-reflect’ (v8ch2), vector reflection (note to self: some instances of reflection may not be related to accelerators power) - reflection seems to be what js06 uses, so I was intending to switch to that. But since there is such a variety, I wanted to double check that the variety wasn’t intentional? -OH&S: IT IS Reflection; at least going by the kanji. ‘Vector Control’, Vector Control, vector control, Vector Conversion, vector conversion, vector manipulation (nt6ch6), vector transformation (not currently used) (some instances of vector control may not be related to Accelerator's power) -This is somewhere where I need help determining which (any or all) terms to keep between control, conversion, manipulation. From what I understand from the wikia article, vector control (ベクトル制御 bekutoru seigyo) is different than vector conversion (ベクトル変換 Bekutoru Henkan). So I would guess the correct course is to pick one form for vector control, and one form for the remaining three (conversion). Any guidance on whether or not to use the capitalized or lower case forms? -Ultranova17: Bekutoru Henkan should actually be vector transformation, as it is based off the mathematics function. Also remember that that is not Accelerator's ability name. His ability is named Accelerator, which he is named after, so I'd use lower case for the description. -js06: Vector transformation is the correct translation. Auto Regeneration <-> ‘Auto Regeneration’ <-> Auto-Rebirth (Tsuchimikado's esper power) -The toaru wiki makes it seem like it should be Auto-Rebirth, but that's only used once in the translation. Are there different forms in the original, or is the variety otherwise intentional? -OH&S: 'Auto Regeneration' >> Auto Rebirth is correct. -Ultranova17: Auto Regen seems like it would match what his ability actually does, but his ability name is: オートリバース or Ōto Ribāsu, so it should be Auto-Rebirth bank vault <-> bank-vault <-> gold vault -When I asked google translate for "bank vault" the kanji it gave me looked like its literal translation might be gold vault, so I thought that might be the reason for the difference. Can anyone say if there are instances that should specifically be gold vault? If not, I'd like to change to bank vault. -Teh Ping: bank vault three colored cat, three-colored cat (ss1ch4, v17ch1) -?> calico cat -Does the use of three-colored reflect a difference in the original? If not, I'd like to change to calico cat as the more natural phrasing. -Ultranova17: I'd go with calico cat. Js06 started using it in the NT8 preview as well. -js06: Calico cat is proper English. Three-colored cat is a literal translation of the Japanese term. Body Crystal (translation usage, v22ch9 anime tie in) <-?-> Ability Crystal (Railgun anime subs and animation) <-?-> Crystallised Esper Essence (fanfare) <-> Ability Body Crystal (fanfare) -When Body Crystal first came up, I wasn’t sure if it was the same thing as in the Railgun anime. Looking at the wikia entry, it appears Body Crystal (taisho) is likely to be the best translation. Before seeing that I was thinking of changing to Ability Crystal to match the anime, but I'll leave it as is unless someone suggests otherwise. OH&S's comment below is further support for leaving it as is. - OH&S (paraphrasing): Ability Body Crystal and Body Crystal as a quick way of saying it. -Cthaeh: I will plan on leaving all of these as is cargo bay (v20ch3) <-> train switchyard (v3) (where Accelerator and Touma fought) -These obviously refer to the same thing, though it's still possible that the original uses a different term. So I wasn't sure if it'd be alright for me to switch to train switchyard? -Teh Ping: Nope, it's consistent. Take the latter AIM Dispersion Field <-> AIM dispersion field <-> AIM Diffusion Fields <-> AIM diffusion field <-> AIM diffusion fields <-> AIM diffusion ability <-> AIM field -I'm intending to change to AIM diffusion fields to match js06's usage (and the anime's), even though dispersion field seems to be what's used on the toaru wikia. Also, the one instance of AIM diffusion ability looks like it might be mistranslation (I think it should be esper ability). But since I have no way of knowing myself, I'll probably leave that term as is unless someone confirms otherwise. - OH&S: It is most definitely Diffusion Field. (Dispersion is similar but not technically correct. NT7 works solely on the fact that it is Diffusion.) mobile armours (v16ch2, others?) / mobile armors (nt3p8) <-> Powered Suit <-> also quoted form <-> Driven Armor-furigana(Powered Suits) <-> powered suit <-?-> driven armour (fanfare) -I’m intending to change all to powered suit. One thing I’m not sure about is if there are any circumstances where I should keep the capitalized form (is every instance of powered suit written the same, and if not should I assume that forms other than powered suit are used to represent those differences?). The other thing I’m not sure about is mobile armours; though, it’s split along translator lines, so I thought perhaps it was merely translator choice should be the same as powered suit? - OH&S: It is Powered Suit. Mobile Armor is the kanji. WORST <-> Worst (Misaka) -Intending to choose Misaka Worst to match js06’s usage. -Ultranova17: Agree with Worst. Number One <--> #1 <-> no. 3 <-> 4th-ranked (nt1ch1) <-> third-ranked (ntch1) (note: I'm just referring to the format, the number/rank used is not the issue) -I'll probably just change the first three styles, and leave the last two as they are. -Ultranova17: What I've been doing in my own copies is changing them to third-ranked where acceptable. Such as, "She was the third-ranked Level 5" instead of "She was the Number Three Level 5". I feel that reads a bit easier. As for other instances where that wouldn't work, I'm not really sure what to use. -Cthaeh: I don't think I want to mix the #3 and third-ranked issue for this edit. As that wasn't specifically an objection to my edit, I will continue with my plan to change the first three to the #X style. Capitalization of esper power names? -This relates to Accelerator’s power name discussion above as well. Should all esper power names be capitalized? Most power names seem to be capitalized (such as Move Point). However, a few aren’t in many places; the ones I know of immediately are vector conversion, vector control, instant teleportation, and electromaster. -Ultranova17: I'd say they should be capitalized. (See above about Accelerator's ability name.) -Cthaeh: Well Accelerators ability sub-names were most of the cases, and now that that is resolved above, this isn't much of an issue. (I'll still capitalize electromaster) Index and blue eyes (v17ch2, v17ch3, v18ch6, v18e, *v1ch2*) -> green eyes -The translation uses blue eyes for Index at a few points, and Index is green-eyed. I'm not sure if that's a translation error, or it's given as blue in the original as well. At least for v1ch2, I suspect that it is not a translation error and is in the original since I think that the two passes from translators gave it as blue eyes (as well as the anime for the equivalent line). *Note that in the v1ch2 instance, editors have currently changed it to green eyes. Checking each instance would become a tlc issue, but if anyone remembers or knows that at least some of those instances are correct as blue eyes, then I assume chances are they're all correct? -js06: Kamachi often describes her eyes using the term 碧眼 which is commonly used to describe the blue eyes of westerners. But in Japanese, the word for blue can also be used to refer to green, so it does fit for Index. It sometimes slips my mind that Index has green eyes and I will end up translating it as "blue eyes". In short, these should be changed to "green eyes".

Less important, but could still use help

This section includes items I would need help on, but are more trivial so I didn't put them in the above section. Some of them would need translator's help on, some of them I was just indecisive which forms would be best to keep and whether or not it was desirable word diversity. So I likely won't be changing most of the items on this list unless someone wants to help on them and leaves a comment.

Less important, but could still use help

third arm (v18e) <-> Third Arm (v20-22) -The lower case third arm is js06 typical usage, but the editors have changed most instances to the caps Third Arm. If someone wants to tell me that one is more right than the other, I can change them. Otherwise I'll leave it as is just so I don't have to decide one way or the other. (Hamazura's/ was) super Hamazura (ntch1) <-?-> super Hamazura-y (v19) Angel of Ice, Archangel of Water (v21ch8) / (vs lower case forms) / water angel (v22ch9) Skies: The question there is whether or not you want to use the term as a title. Of the three, archangel of water (ignore the capitalization for the moment) is the most appropriate. Ice is inaccurate theologically and water angel implies it's made of water rather than the fact that it has mastery over water. If you want to use it as a title, like the Archangel of Water Gabriel, then that's appropriate. Otherwise it's fairly just pedantic preference. -Cthaeh: Do you know that the original JP uses only one term where the translation uses two (Angel of Ice, Archangel of Water)? Normally I look at whether whether or not the term usage is split along translator lines, but Angel of Ice and Archangel of Water both appear in the same passage by the same translator, so I was suspicious that there were two different terms in the original. -Ultranova17: Based on the three ones I looked up, it seems like water should be correct. However, angel and archangel both seem to be used. 水の大天使 is the term used in v21ch7p7, and 水の天使 is both used in v21ch8p4 and v22ch9p3 faction (v8pro) <-?-> clique (nt6ch5, nt7ch1) -OH&S: faction>>clique -Skies: My opinion varies. A faction has a very different connotation than a clique. There are social cliques but there are no social factions. In the context of Tokiwadai, clique is more appropriate. A faction is more relevant to alliances and fellowships. Styl's sword summoning chant is different between V1 and SPch1 (also other places), but it's so different that I assume it is a difference in the original as well wave (fanfare) <-> shockwave (ss2) (Sogiita's power) -Skies: A shockwave is a form of wave. It doesn't really matter what you use, Gunha doesn't even know how his own powers work. Golden Dawn (v4) <-?-> the Golden Cabal or the Dawn-Colored Sunlight -I wasn’t sure whether or not the Golden Dawn was equivalent to the other two. At one point it says “The members of the Golden Dawn should be panicking like crazy now”, but I had thought the Golden Dawn was the same as the Golden Cabal (which was given as the no longer existent cabal that was the predecessor to the Golden-style cabals and the Dawn-Colored Sunlight). So unless someone can clarify that it is equivalent to one of the other forms, I won’t be touching it. -OH&S: Leave it. -Skies: Golden Dawn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn As a historical term just leave it. Salvare000 - A saving hand for those who cannot be saved. (2x-nt2ch4) <--?--> Salvare000 — Be the salvation of those who cannot be saved (v4ch3) astrology department (v21ch8) / Astrological Surgery Brigade <-> astrology group (v16ch1pg110) First Production Plan <-?-> Radio Noise project -Ultranova17: I'm not sure about other volumes, but in volume 5, all instances of "First Production Plan" were 量産型能力者 《レデイオノイズ》 in Japanese. That has Radio Noise as the furigana. I used a lower case project in those edits, but I'm not sure if it should be capitalized or not. brainwashing machine (v13ch8) <-> self-learning (device) <-> Testament -OH&S: Testament is correct. Learning Device is the kanji. Supreme Pontiff <-> Priestess -Ultranova17: Priestess is the furigana. 元女教皇 《プリエステス》 -janyo (n1ch1) <-> -jan (at end of Yomikawa's speech) (ntch1 also uses -jan, so I'm not sure if the janyo is intentional) supreme pontiff <-> (former substitute) pontiff (nt2ch3) <--> pope (Tatemiya of the Amakusa, ss1ch3, v16ch1, v17 Kanzaki) 20 Saints <--> less than 20 saints (? one or both may be correct) Gensei-ojiisan <-> -ojisan for the others (nt4p30) nyah <-?-> nya / nyaa (Tsuchimikado) educational guidance <-> student counseling (referring to gorilla-like teacher) not-blood-related sister, not blood-related sister (v19 ch1) <-> foster sibling <-> foster-sister <-> foster sister <-> stepsister <-> step sister Colt's Cross <-> Celtic Cross (v3ch1) (Himegami's cross) magi <-?-> magicians General Superintendent <-> General Director the storage box next to the dashboard (v19ch3) -> glovebox Onmyoudou (v13ch6) <-> Onmyodo <-?-> Onmyou onmyouji <-> Onmyoji - there might be other variants, need to check twin tail <-> twin-tail <-> twintail <-> twin-ponytail <-> pigtails beetle-haired <--> beetle-headed (v16 ch2, and probably others too) like a lion <-> like a lion's mane (referring to Sherry Cromwell's hair) Knights (TP) <-> knights (js06) oujo <-> high-class girl spears <-> lances <-> Bomber Lances imouto (v3ch1, others) -> sister -I'm not a fan of using imouto, but I think it's one of those things that some people think is important to keep, so it ended up on this list. -Ultranova17: I like using Misaka Imouto, but I don't like having imouto in place of sister. Chapter 1 of volume 3 was something I had trouble with. Misaka Imouto refers to #10032 exclusively. Touma first meets Misaka #10031, who is referred in the translation as Misaka-imouto. I'm not really sure what that should be, as it would seem kind of weird to just start calling her Misaka's (younger) sister, and then suddenly switch to Misaka Imouto once #10032 shows up. -Cthaeh: I do also like the usage of Misaka Imouto, and not imouto for the standard sister. I'll probably leave everything as is unless one of the two translators/supervisor comments in favor of switching (less work for me that way). degrees <-> degrees Celsius (nt4 at least) <-> degree love comedy <-> romantic comedy esper development <-> esper ability development <-> psychic powers development <-> psychic power development <-> esper development <-> -Ultranova17: I've always edited it to psychic powers as that's what js06 translates it as. Same with changing esper powers to psychic powers, and Level 5 esper to just Level 5. -(I forgot to add an OH&S comment from the pm, so this is not actually a response to Ultranova17, even though the opinion is counter) OH&S: "esper vs psychic: I will probably change them all to esper after consulting js06." -Cthaeh: This ended up on my list after noticing it in some of Ultranova17's edits. Frankly I'm not too motivated about this one, so I may just leave it as is. The same goes for the below entry. (esper) development institute <-> (psychic powers) development institution <-> (psychic powers) development organization (referring to Academy city as a whole 'Knights of Rounds' (v16ch3) / Knights of England (v17 ch1) <-> not used by js06 -Ultranova17: According to js06, for Knights of Rounds, the Japanese is 騎士派, which is consistent with the rest of the series for the knight faction. -Cthaeh: So the first should be knight faction? ‘Abnormal Halloween Night’s incident’ (nt1ch1) <-?-> British Halloween (v20) windmill generators / windmill electricity generator <--> wind turbine <-> windmill turbine <-> windmill damn it <-> dammit -Skies: It doesn't matter. Several prolific writers use either or both. who knew <-> who knows eihwaz <-> ehwaz (type of rune) -I had thought these were the same, but there are two different wikipedia entries, so I’m leaving it unless someone happens to check the original and see they should be the same. Onee-sama <-> onee-sama high class lady <-> ojou <-> lady the Golden cabal (referring to the specific one) <-?-> the Golden magic cabal

Moderate edits

It's less likely someone will care what's in here, but there may be a few that people have opinions on.

Moderate edits

X <-> #X (when referring to the Misakas, ie “Misaka #10032” vs “Misaka 10032”) sisters, Sisters, SISTERS, SISTERs, ‘SISTERs’, ‘imoutos’, imoutos, Imoutos -There are a few places where Imoutos or ‘imoutos’ are used where I'd expect Sisters. Since I think Sisters is usually given with furigana, I will assume those instances of Imoutos are separate from Sisters and will not change them otherwise. the darkness <-> the Darkness instant teleport <-> instant teleportation <-> single and double quoted versions of the first two -OH&S: Leave It the Third World War <-> World War III <-> World War 3 <-> World War Three -I'll probably get rid of at least some of these forms, I just haven't decided which. If you have an opinion feel free to share. -Skies: Historians typically use a variation of the first three (the first two in particular) but not so much the fourth. sorcery name --> magic name Thororm’s Formula (v21ch8) <-> Spell of Thororm sector zero <-> Sector Zero <-> 0th parish <-> 0th Parish Golden cabal <-> Golden-style cabal Golden magic <-> Golden-style magic Original <-> original (for referring to Mikoto relative the clones) Personal Reality <-> personal reality Serial no. X <-> Serial Number X <-> serial number X (when referring to the Misakas) nun robes -> nun's robes -> nun habit -> nun's habit Roman Catholics <--> Roman Catholic Church (Roman Catholics shall be kept when describing a group of members, but not the organization as a whole) chill on ___ back <-> chill down ___ back <-> chill down ___ spine -Skies: Chill on ___ back would be an incorrect idiom. The other two are correct, with spine being the most oft used. Original <-> original (grimoire) Symbolic Weapon <-> symbolic weapon Steel Glove (rss2ch7) <-> steel glove (v17, v20ch1) Imaginary Numbers District -> Imaginary Number District <-> Imaginary Number School District (this one is used only in the chapter title) <-> Imaginary Number Institute (only used once in dialogue, I'll leave it as is) Imaginary Number District - Five Elements Institution <-> Imaginary Number District Five Elements Institution board of directors <-> Board of Directors chairman / chairman of the board (nt6ep) <-> Chairman / Chairman of the Board of Directors Gremlin <-> GREMLIN -Ultranova17: I'd consider Gremlin, based on the above. Dragon (nt6ep) <-> DRAGON -Ultranova17: Same with Dragon. the Knight Leader (using it as a title) -> Knight Leader (using it as a name) That was right. (this one’s mostly my fault) <-> That's right. <-> (That’s right.) dark side (most common?), Dark Side (19ch1&ch3), "dark side" (nt1ch1) darkness <-> Darkness Western <-> [Ww]estern showdown <-> Western rodeo -Some editors apparently didn't like the use of Western (as in the genre of entertainment/movies) used by js06. I'm intending to change it back to the original choice of Western.

Minor edits

These are smaller edits, and I think it's unlikely anyone cares all that much what's in this section.

Minor edits

Russian Orthodox (v16 ch1) ->? Russian Orthodox Church Friulian spear (v11) <--> Friuli spear (v14, others) Metateater (nt1ch5) <--> Metal Eater (v3, SP4) #am <-> # am <-> #AM <-> # AM (search for equivalent PM) Lightning God Thor <-> lightning god Thor Misaka-imouto <-> Misaka Imouto -Ultranova17: When referring to #10032. -Cthaeh: I never quite noticed that before now (I remember you brought it up somewhere before, but I didn't understand what you were talking about at the time). I assume there's probably not any instances that need to be switched then, and I'll leave resolving the awkwardness you mentioned in an above entry to someone else at a later date. janken <-> rock paper scissors <-> rock-paper-scissors <-> Rock-paper-scissors Sphynx <-> Sphinx leylines <-> ley lines aodai <-> ao dai London Tower -> the Tower of London naïve / naïvely <-> naive / naively Silvercross (nt7ch3) <-> Silver Cross (nt1) high rise <-> high-rise blueish -> bluish German Suplex <-> German suplex ‘Neccessarius’ <-> "Necessarius" <-> ‘Necessarius’ <-> Necessarius ‘Queen’s Fleet’ <-> Queen’s Fleet ‘Judgement’ <-> Judgement -Ultranova17: If you are planning on changing to American English, it should be Judgment. If you are staying with British, Judgement is correct. ‘School Garden’ <-> School Garden ‘Tree Diagram’-> Tree Diagram ‘Angel Fall’-> Angel Fall ‘Innocentius’ -> Innocentius 'Saint' , "Saints", saint --> Saint(s) (as a magical term, or title. Generic good people are lower case saints. 'God’s Right Seat' --> God’s Right Seat 'Spark Signal' <-> Spark Signal ‘Son of God’ / The Son of God (v16e) / the Son of God ‘Power of God’ / Power of God ‘Deep Blood’ -> Deep Blood 'freshmen' -> Freshmen (I think I'll have gotten all these) 'Dark May Project' -> Dark May Project (I may have gotten all of these already) Dorm Supervisor -> dorm supervisor <-> dorm mother 12 Apostles, twelve apostles, Twelve Apostles, apostle (general), Apostle (for titles) zeros <-> zeroes the ‘Book of the Law’ <-> ‘Book of the Law’ <-> 'The Book of the Law' <-> "The Book of the Law" <-> The Book of the Law <-> Book of the Law Iai <-> iai machinegun <-> machine gun the bible <-> the Bible self destruct <-> self-destruct electromaster <-> Electromaster buses <-> busses 177th branch office <-> 177th Branch Office (also some other branch office numbers) Third Gate (v13ch6) <-> third gate (v13ch6) one piece <-> one-piece world police <-> 'World Police' ace of Tokiwadai Middle School <-> Ace of Tokiwadai Middle School <-?-> Ace of Tokiwadai eyepatch <-> eye patch higher ups <-> higher-ups earth -> Earth (as the planet) kabbalah <-> Kabbalah east / west <-> East / West (as relating to Eastern vs Western cultures, not directions) Western magic <-> western magic Eastern magic <-> eastern magic Western / Eastern <-> western / eastern (as relating to Eastern vs Western cultures) Magic Cabal -> magic cabal Flame Sword <-> flame sword cellphone -> cell phone F.C.E. <-> FCE Misaka network -> Misaka Network shounen <-> shonen Villain -> villain Skill Out -> Skill-Out substitute Supreme Pontiff <--> Substitute Supreme Pontiff gemstone(s) <--> Gemstone(s) Angel / Archangel <-> angel / archangel (should be capital when used with a name of a specific angel) lord (v17ch4) -> Lord (when referring to the Christian god) blonde (for women) <-> blond (for men) -Skies: Pedantic. I approve. grit -> gritted (for past tense) Gatling gun <-> gatling gun the One Above God <-> The One Above God "outside" (nt1ch1) / Outside / outside Equ.DarkMatter (v22ch11) <-> Equ.Darkmatter (nt4p21) Fraulein -> Fräulein Agnese Force / Agnese forces / Agnese Forces "graveyard" <-> graveyard (nt1ch1) Level 0’s <-> Level 0s (and similarly for other levels) Biri Biri <-> biri biri <-> biribiri gyudon <-> gyuudon teacup <-> tea cup pope-class <-> Pope-class pyrokinesis <-> Pyrokinesis Kamiyan <-> Kami-yan

Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous

add a period after middle initials not currently one (<[A-Z][a-z]@> [A-Z] <[A-Z][a-z]@>) should also search for improper a/an usage (search " a a", " a e", ect) (<[Aa]> [aeiouAEIOU]) false "an" search (find " an b", " an c", ect) (<[Aa][Nn]> [!aeiouAEIOU]) deletion of strange extra long spaces ("　" and " ") deletion of double normal spaces naming of the Notes sections fix lines lacking opening or closing double quotes (undecided on whether I want to bother) standardizing the spacing before and after part and chapter headers

American vs British English

As brought up for discussion in the forum, I am proposing to switch the narrative and dialogue/monologue of non-British characters to American English. That proposal hasn't been gotten official approval yet, but I'm starting this list to work on while it's open for discussion under the assumption that it will be approved.

This list is only for vocabulary, or alternate verb forms. Differences in spelling like color/colour, realize/realise, and defense/defence don't need to be listed. If you know of any other British vocabulary differences used in the Index translations, let me know. Also I listed a few terms that I wasn't entirely sure if they were a BE vs AE difference, or just personal preference.

Note: (Assuming the proposed changes are approved) I will be converting BE to AE in narration. I will also make an attempt at converting non-British character dialogue to AE (it may not be perfect), but I will be leaving the conversion of any AE already in the dialogue of British characters to others. Also I asked this on the forum too, but does anyone have an suggestions for Tsuchimikado and Kanzaki? Tsuchimikado is British. However, since he is a spy and should blend be blending in, I would say he should match the Japanese characters and use AE. Kanzaki is Japenese (so she would be AE), except she lives and was taught English in Britian.

American vs British vocabulary

fringe / bangs torch, torchlight / flashlight boot / luggage compartment / trunk (of a car) (boot changed to luggage compartment by RR) maths / math canteen / cafeteria (though in v16ch1 it has both "canteen and cafeteria" ??) restroom / teachers' lounge, teachers' office, break room (v6 ch2 p5) co-ordinate(s) / coordinate(s) (v8, 11-4) zebra crossing / crosswalk (v10 ch6) lorry / truck (v11 ch2) storeys / stories trousers / pants bath / bathe (as verb form) ice forum (v16ch2) / ice skating rink carpark -> parking lot, parking garage (depending on context) multi-story parking lot -> multi-story parking garage alphabets (M) -> letters, characters handphone (M) / mobile phone, mobile (B) (ss1 ch1) / cell phone (A) sneaked -> snuck aeroplane -> airplane learnt / learned lift(s) / elevator(s) phone books -> contacts list, or address book (for a cellphone, v8 ch2) perimeter(s) -> fence(s) (v10 ch8), or wall (nt1ch1) Also a few that I'm not entirely sure if would be BE vs AE, or just personal preference? till -> until cinema / movie theater (v11ch3, others?) tarmac (v15ch5, v19ch3, others) / asphalt? luggage bag / suitcase (v11 ch1-2, and probably others) mail / email

Not working on

The following items I know are inconsistent, but I've decided not to touch anything in this list.

Not working on

cross <-> Cross god <-> God Misaka speech (use of single quotes or not) usage of it/its vs she/her for Misha/Gabriel (v20-22 seems to use she, v4 seems to use both) formatting for dates (use or lack of st, nd, rd, th) -… <-> emdash curly/straight quotation marks commas and periods (and other punctuation) inside vs outside of quotation marks thought formatting (nothing, italics, parentheses, and combinations thereof) use and prevalence of caps for shouting numbers as digits vs as words the usage of s's, s', ss's, ect (Note: ), (TN: ) to references with ref tag whether or not to put noinclude on the Notes sections (have single notes section in full text or multiple)

Comments

Note: Some comments from OH&S were sent via pm and have been added under the corresponding entries.

Made some comments above. I'm not working on any edits at the moment, so no worries there. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Thanks for all your dedication to the editing. Ultranova17 (talk) 00:04, 30 August 2013 (CDT)

Thanks for the comments and help. I have updated the list, and made some replies, based on comments so far. I have reorganized the list to emphasize (bring to the top) the items which could still use more discussion or help. --Cthaeh (talk) 19:19, 30 August 2013 (CDT)

I've added in my input. A few things I'd like to note is that it's impossible to make various translations sound like they were written by the same person. In addition to that, there are times when the author, in this Kamachi, decides to be stylistic and use different wordings or phrases. In the end it's best not to be too pedantic about anything other than grammar and structure. And no, to your question. I will not be uploading anymore chapters I edit, for the most part I consider my part on BT over. A lot of liberties need to be taken when completely reformatting a narrative (and you will see this if you analyze Volume 2 previous to my edits) and a lot of the times, translations that don't make sense in context or flat out need to be reworked and the ultimate result of that is the distorting of the narrative quality. This is especially egregious when the translations themselves were rough. --Skies (talk) 17:43, 3 September 2013 (CDT)

Thanks for your comments. The point that I interpret as "drops in the bucket" is valid, but I think some progress is always better (and this is pretty much all I'm capable of). Also, I acknowledge that intentional diversity isn't bad. I tended to shovel things I attributed to possible intentional diversity into the "Less important" category, most of which I haven't bolded and will leave as is. I also just got in the habit of including every single thing that I noticed was different while reading. Other reasons I have so many fairly trivial items is, one, because a simultaneous edit of all chapters is a convenient time to do as many edits as possible; two, because I spent too much time looking though page edit histories and getting overly annoyed when things were changed some places but not others; and, three, because I'm just personally detailed oriented (read as OCD) (astute readers will notice that "three" is actually the only reason I have). If there are any things that you think are removing valid diversity beyond what you've commented on so far, then don't feel shy about saying so. --Cthaeh (talk) 19:30, 3 September 2013 (CDT)

Since most of the issues have been resolved from my perspective, I may start this Friday. --Cthaeh (talk) 19:30, 3 September 2013 (CDT)

Hey, no problem. I need to update the PDFs with the changes, so I'll be going through everything. Feel free to do so as well if you want. It can't hurt to have more people look through it. Looks like I missed quite a few in volume 7 because of those magical texts, so I'll keep that in mind for later volumes. Thanks again for doing all this. It's nice to see the volumes get more consistent with each other. -Ultranova17 (talk) 23:36, 16 September 2013 (CDT)

A Continued Conversation

Hey Cthaeh, I am just continuing our PM conversation from AS here as per your suggestion.

So about having words on words: It was never my goal to inconvenience others with my edits. As you could tell by looking at the calendar I uploaded, I have a higher tolerance towards detail than others would like. I wanted to make my edits benefit the translation and the Index LN readers rathre than hinder them. As such, I am going to have a major rethink on how to go about working with these alternately pronounced words. I actually understand the angle at which you are approaching the issue; it can be a distraction when reading. Seeing furigana on words all the time would bring about a headache. Like you said in your earlier PM, there are a lot of words for which the base kanji is only slightly different from what is spoken and very little extra information is given. In such a case, I wouldn't include it either, or only include it for the first use of the word. e.g. Illusion DestroyerImagine Breaker only for the first time in the entire series.
Another issue that may be annoying to deal with is that of the furigana being squeezed between the two lines in blocks of text like the given example. Sometimes there is overlap, which increases the difficulty of reading and makes the aforementioned headache worse. It would be unwise to have furigana in such a scenario.
Lastly the use of bold text for the base words: I was just experimenting to see if it was a viable option (for the app) and have yet to change it back. After looking at it and hearing your opinion on it, I dont like it either. The specific example you used, Asociacion di Cienia, was bolded to highlight what was actually pronounced. No need to worry about it, that particular example doesn't even need furigana going by the above criteria. If no one changes it by the time I get to it, I will do it myself.

In the end, I may be able to avoid the excessive use of furigana by making clever use of the ref tag. I can create a reference group for alternate pronounciations and stuff all of the furigana there while listing them at the bottom of the chapter page with the other notes; its seems like a better choice. Though I still plan on using furigana for at least some of the one-off or rarely used phrases in the series.

e.g. Dragon King's Killing BreathDragon Breath ... Actually, bad example. If the furigana is longer than the base, then I will also put it into the alt references. Like so:

Dragon Breath

If I do things like this, I may be able to minimize the use of furigana as much as possible. However, some important ones do need to be there, like the epic line from Touma at the end of Volume 3 Chapter 4. I can also include translations of other terms not in english within the alt references. Essentially, all(majority) of the headache inducing furigana will be at the bottom of the page for those who actually click the the footnote. As long as you don't click them, no headaches. This would also fall in line with my goal of fixing up the notes section across all volumes. What do you think of this new method? If I create another ref group for the other references, then I think this method will work well for the Index series. It would also be good to get feedback from the other translators and editors.--OH&S (talk) 08:48, 18 September 2013 (CDT)

I think references is probably the best compromise between those who want the extra information, and those who don't want to be distracted while reading. I think excess references in the text can also be distracting as well (though not as much), so my personal preference would still be to leave out unnecessary terms, and to only reference the first occurrence if it as least somewhat important. The example of Dragon Breath (Dragon King's Killing Breath) is one that I personally wouldn't consider it important enough to get a reference even on the first occurrence. Though obviously opinions will differ on what is important.

One idea might be to make a list of all furigana terms on a separate page (linked from the main project page), and then those who are interested could still see all the terms that use furigana, including those that weren't important enough to get references. What I'm imagining is a new page with a sortable list (see this page for an example of the wikitable sortable format), with columns <vX-cY (first appearance)> - <kanji translation> - <furigana translation>. That way people would be able to sort by first appearance and look up such terms for a given volume, or sort by name to look up if they forgot the first occurrence. Though I don't know if such list on a separate page would be a satisfactory method of providing the extra information from the perspective of those who want that extra information. --Cthaeh (talk) 19:40, 18 September 2013 (CDT)

Well I think the best course of action is to forget about the furigana edits for now and for me to do my edits for Volume 1 and 2. Then go back and make furigana related edits afterwards as a trial. After we can come to an agreement on how to go about furigana edits. I can continue with the designated format. How does that sound?--OH&S (talk) 21:02, 18 September 2013 (CDT)

Sure. Though if you wanted to include your furigana related edits in your first pass, I think that'd be fine too. And others might have opinions to contribute as well; my opinion isn't all that important beyond representing readers who may be like me. --Cthaeh (talk) 21:38, 18 September 2013 (CDT)